The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said Wednesday that it would temporarily allow widespread sales of a higher ethanol gas blend in a move that they hope will tamp down consumer prices that have soared since the Iran war began.
The sale of E15 is typically discontinued in the summer because it can contribute to harmful air pollution.
Not all are convinced the move will substantially lower gas prices. E15 isn’t available in all states and some places don’t have the necessary infrastructure or enough of a supply of ethanol to ramp up use, said Kenneth Gillingham, a professor at the Yale School of the Environment who studies the impacts of transportation regulations on prices, emissions and consumer welfare.
This thread is predictable, fueled by oil and gas bot misinformation.
Brazil sells E100 fuel, and it’s $3.30 a gallon, cars run cooler, cleaner and last longer due to no carbon build up and carbon deposits in oil.
No cartel sets the price, and the fuel comes from biomass which captured the carbon during growth.
Go to any drag strip, ethanol dragsters are popular.
Also, these run on alcohol fuel and have for 60 years…
You do understand those are not the same engines we have here right?
Talk about misinformation. While it is true that race cars use exotic fuel such as this, they also get rebuilt and refreshed regularly and they also are designed around using fuel like this. Its like saying my Camry can run nitro methane fuel just because the guys at the drag strip do it. Furthermore, it takes a shit ton of land and carbon to grow food crops just to turn it into fuel, while millions of people go hungry.
This isn’t a solution for passenger vehicles.
Ethanol can still cause carbon build up as it is made of carbon and at high temps can form carbon non polar byproducts
Isn’t that the reason they still sell ethanol free gas, because it gunks up small engines?
Yes its absolute garbage for older vehicles too. When it dries out it leaves a chunky white powder that will kill a carburetor.
Sorta, but that’s not usually from burning the fuel. Ethanol attacks rubber in older engines, so that can be a source of gunk.
But usually it’s because ethanol absorbs water and small engines often sit longer with fuel in them. Also, when gas with ethanol evaporates, it leaves a varnish that can clog stuff up.
Also, it has more oxygen available and can burn hotter, which is rough for some small engines, especially air-cooled ones.
Does E100 work in standard car engines that were designed for standard gas?
Absolutely not. You need to have an ethanol content sensor and a ECU calibrated to run ethonol. You can make more horse power with ethonol because it burns cooler, and also because you burn more of it (more fuel being sprayed in cylinders acts as a coolant to some extent) however there is a greater consumption (less mpg). Also why u must have sensors and calibrated ECU as you will effectively run real lean on pure ethonol if ur car has no idea what it’s burning. On ethonol you will get worse milage, although it’s cheaper per gallon so cheaper to run but less range per tank. Modern cars are ok on 10-15% ethonol, but if attracts water into your fuel so gas spoils faster and it gums up as it dries out and will fuck up and clog carbs. It’s also bad for old carb gaskets that aren’t ethonol safe. This is why u always get that nasty yellow shit clogging the jets in ur lawnmower carbs or bike carbs after it sits all winter. Where I live I try to use ethonol free gas in all my carbed vehicles because ethonol is the devil for carbs (which is why it only got popular with the introduction of fuel injection), and always dodge ethonol if you know the vehicle is going to sit for any more than a couple months.
That’s exactly the reason you’re supposed to let your mower run dry before storing it for the winter. But I always run some seafoam through it in spring just to be safe.
The Trump administration is going to reck my engine, isn’t it.
Well yeah, new car sales are way down so this is really a two birds, one stone situation for them
E15 is perfectly safe for any car made after 2010. There is a reason it is widely offered in many states.
E15 is also significantly cheaper, like $0.30/gal cheaper. I pretty much only fill up at stations that have it.
Thats nice, if only i could afford a car made after 2010.
Total BS my 2018 car’s manual says it can only run on E10.
Which car is this?
Subaru Outback with the 3.6
Huh, TIL.
Thank you.
My car was made before that and I want it to keep going as long as possible. It has great gas mileage and very few problems.
It’s more about the computer adjusting how the engine operates than anything. Most newer vehicles can detect a change in the Octane levels and adjust themselves.
But seals getting eaten by ethanol and the ethanol gunking up the engine is still a concern, especially if you have a carburetor.
The dumbest fucking thing.
Yeah, we should have a E100 option like Brazil. But we choose to be Saudi Arabia’s bitch.
If you care about greenhouse gasses, then you should be pushing for Zero Ethanol.
stuffing corn cob into gas tank EAT IT
only 1.5% of corn grown is edible.
But trump said we don’t need anything from anyone and we already won the war…
Just replaced a fuel hose that was 5 years old but had rotted though. It’s because of ethanol.
Nonsense. Cars have been using synthetic ethanol resistant hoses for over 17 years. Someone switched the hose for the wrong type.
This country will do anything except harvest the power from that big yellow ball in the sky.
Technically everything runs on sunlight:
Sun>Algae>decomposition>Oil Sun>Tree>Fossilization>Coal Sun>Wind>Turbine>Electricity Sun>Panel>Electricity Sun>Corn>Fermentation>Etanol
then Ethanol,
Water and C02 taken up by new plant growth, to make new ethanol.
This was Henry Ford’s plan to have his first cars run an ethanol, which any farm could make. Then Standard Oil greased palms in Washington and made sure ethanol was illegal to make.
Hmmm? This is the way you get a gas car to run on sunshine.
Sun > corn > ethanol
Ethanol> H20 and C02 >corn
This country is a fuckin death cult
The what? I’m not familiar with any yellow ball in the sky. You mean when corn gets really tall? That shit can make so much ethanol.
If this is basically back winter blend pricing, then what, like 15 cents cheaper? It’s not that drastic.
strange. e15 and e85 are available year around near me from what I can tell.
From the article it sounds like it is based on your state. Odd to me that year-round E15 and E85 isn’t available everywhere. It’s cheaper and lowers carbon emissions.
Even just the E15 here is $0.30 cheaper than the E10. I have even seen it drop to $0.50 cheaper from time to time.
what gets me is it says basically at most 15% and you know they are only going to go to 15% if its cheaper and honestly gas was so cheap I kinda wondered if the ethanol was often like 11%. same with the e85 which can be much smaller. combine that with alchol being a useful additive in the winter. I actually would look at the prices and assume the e15 was like 10% less energy (its not that low) and e85 was two thirds or three fourths. I think its closer to 3/4 but that might slightly give it to much. Often the discount was worth it and you are getting higher octane like premium gas.
Ethanol has 1/3 less energy density but higher octane it burns slower.
So E85 versus E10 is a difference of 0.33 x 0.05 of 1.6 percent. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
You want more efficiency and save big $? Drive the speed limit, then you can cut costs by 20-30% because aero drag is exponential.
yeah that just means its an even better deal vs my suppositions. Don’t get me wrong im not big on ethanol subsidies but as an individual buying from the pump im making decisions based on my limited supply of money. One thing I did not mention which could be a factor is that gasoline evaporates more than ethanol but ironically mixing a bit of alcohol makes both evaporate faster. Where I am at regular is required to be 10% which is like the worst case. if you buy the ones with more ethanol it lowers the vapor pressure the more you have in. This make e85 if you car can handle it that much better especially if it sits more than drives (like mine)
Fun fact, this raises the price of corn, and other grains (less of it if they grow more corn) which is mostly used for animal feed. Fertilizer prices will be much higher if corn for ethanol “steals it” from other food.
“FUCK YOUR ENGINE, LOL!”
-EPA I guess
Any car made after 2010 handles E15 just fine. It’s cheaper than E10 and has lower carbon emissions. I pretty much only fill up with E15 due to the lower prices.
Any car made after 2010 handles E15 just fine.
Yeah fuck those poor people with older cars am I right?
E10 is still offered.
As per the article, this is extending winter fuel blends in states where E15 isn’t offered year-round.
Remember, more than 10% ethanol is not advised by most manufacturers and may harm your engine.
If this is implemented, it would be better to find ethanol free providers.
Higher ethanol just means a different fuel map is used in the ECU. Many cars are flex fuel.
Realistically most vehicles made after 2010 have ethanol safe components and fuelling systems that can handle the change in energy density of E30. I’d still try to avoid it though
whats kinda funny is people put heet in their cars in winter near me.
HEET is a popular fuel-line antifreeze and water remover designed to prevent gas line freeze-ups, rust, and corrosion in automotive engines*. It works by absorbing moisture in the fuel tank, allowing it to burn with the fuel, and is especially effective in cold, winter conditions.
yeah by being alcohol. not ethanol. one type is methanol and another is ugh I forget but the other side of ethanol. Main reason it does not use ethanol is the complexities around consumption.
Ethanol is an alcohol.
Ethanol, made from corn, fertilized with…?
Short term thinking got the USA into the mess. More short term thinking is the answer, right?
Wait, you think there was any thinking involved in getting the US into this mess? Nothing going on in Trump’s head counts as thinking. If he got any dumber he’d qualify as a vegetable.
That’s an insult to vegetables. At least veggies are good for you.
Plus, higher ethanol content in fuel reduces its energy density, so while this will certainly reduce prices, it will make people buy gas more often. Meaning… Not a great fix.
There’s also the deal where a significant amount of the world’s nitrogen fertilizer passes through the Strait of Hormuz, so even if corn ethanol is cheaper now, it may not be for long.
I accidentally put E85 in my van when I was driving cross country after buying. My efficiency went to shit and was getting about 150 miles on a tank (20 gallon) compared to the 300 miles I was getting the rest of the trip,
My efficiency went to shit and was getting about 150 miles on a tank (20 gallon) compared to the 300 miles I was getting the rest of the trip,
So 5% ethanol causes 50% drop in efficiency?
E85 is 85% ethanol pal
I’m actually fine with sabotaging the effective range of gas cars to make EVs slightly more attractive haha
Edit: If a mild opinion like this gets the downvotes wait till you all hear my opinions on car ownership in general lmao
Comments like this make EVs less attractive. Not the shitty range of EVs, the dipshit attitude of EV owners/fans.
Seriously, go fuck yourself. I’m not trying to buy a new car just because gas all the sudden became less efficient. I’m trying to keep the same vehicle for as long as possible.
You’re either rich, dumb, or don’t pay any bills of your own.
I’m trying to keep the same vehicle for as long as possible.
The oil companies are trying to make sure you stay in a metal cage as long as possible
I don’t think everyone switching to electric cars is the best possible solution. Think of all the waste, there are plenty of older cars that are in running condition.
Although, maybe if there was a market for affordable electric conversions then that would be best.
Emissions from building a EV is from memory less than the emissions from continuing to run an ICE car after only a few years. And rapid adoption would encourage more renewables into the grid and in homes further increasing the EV advantage.
Would that extend as far as mining, battery construction, and (probably) shipping components around the globe?
Usually these sort of studies include embodied emissions including all of the inputs that go into building the car. This article here: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/
focuses on new-to-new comparisons, but if you subtract the embodied emissions of around 8M tonnes of CO2 for the model 3, it looks like the break even point using the US electricity supply in 2021 is around 4.5 years. And that is probably a bit conservative given that:
- The energy supply has gotten cleaner since then
- It is compared to a Toyota Corolla which is a quite efficient petrol car (although bulkier SUV EVs etc would come out worse too so it depends)
Of course, it also depends on how much the car is used. If you use a used ICE car extremely infrequently the crossover point will be later.
Here’s a research article I have gotten around to reading yet but you may find interesting: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S095965262300269X
You might have to go to annas-archive and the like to get the content however.
Nearly 14k miles is a lot for people in some locations. This is more or less what I was talking about. OP was throwing out random (trust me bro) figures, but the numbers I’ve seen are more nuanced, like these.
My point was basically that I thought their assertions were rather naive. I like the idea of electric, but not necessarily what I’ve seen out of the tech rn.
I’d also be curious how things worked over the life of the vehicle, and not some arbitrary tipping point early on in the x axis.
Battery replacement is usually going to be far more significant than 14k miles, but will have to happen. A standard carolla or camery can run for fucking ever with modest investment in care. All the care in the world won’t protect you against batteries going belly-up.
Lithium batteries are far, far, far more reliable than a Toyota. It’s not even a comparison.
Yeah, after all gas needs to be extracted distilled and shipped around the globe every time you fill up. Only to be burned at 20-30% efficency.
That isn’t the same. I didn’t ask about electricity (that would fuel the vehicle). I was pointing out that, among other things, batteries require mining in very specific locations, shipping raw components to where batteries will be built, building them, and shipping them to their destination.
Apples to apples (insofar that it is possible), my dude.
Yeah I know it will barely make a dent. But I think making them just a little tiny bit more attractive is a good thing. Speed up the adoption, cultural acceptance and general acceleration of technology ever so slightly.
Electric cars aren’t unattractive because they’re electric cars. They’re unattractive because they cost 1/4 the cost of my house and come preenshitified with subscriptions. If I could afford an electric car I would get one. Let me know when you see one selling for under $5k.
You can buy a new gas car for $5K?
When did I say new? I still have no idea how anyone who isn’t a millionare or more could buy a new car. I’m decently above average income and even the cheapest new cars still cost an impossible amount of money. Yeah loans are a thing but that also confuses me because why would any bank give anyone a +$20,000 loan for a fairly rapidly depreciating asset which could be totaled the next day by a random deer or bad driver. Yeah, insurance is a thing but the cost of insurance on new cars is also inconceivably expensive. Even if you ignore the cost of vehicle itself, how do people even manage to pay the insurance premiums and registration costs? Some people must be buying new cars of course but I genuinely have no idea how or why.
Polestar exists. Buy used. You can get a great EV for less than 30k regularly and less than 20k depending on your needs and deal shopping.
Those prices are an absolute steal in today’s car market.
Around me,you can buy a Nissan leaf for $4000 without a lot of miles…but this won’t last long when people get a clue about EV misinformation.
$20k is still more than I can ever imagine spending on a vehicle. The most expensive vehicle I ever bought was $3k and I really had to think on that one. Until there are +20 year old used electric vehicles for sale, they aren’t an option for me. Unfortunately it also looks like they are being built like every other piece of tech and designed to be tossed out every few years so I don’t know that +20 year old electric vehicles will ever really exist. Not that new gas engine cars are any different in that way either of course.
I’m referring to the market of people who can already afford one, but choose not to because of various reasons like range, charging speed, politics, charging availability, etc. I never said the only reason they’re unattractive is anything specific. But anything that helps them get in the mainstream consciousness will eventually help things like mass production, research, and market share, which will also help price and overall technology improvement speed. $5k electric cars may come in the future but nothing relating to ethanol in gas will directly cause those to appear and before that happens EVs in general need to become more accepted and more adopted.
What would make it seem more attractive to me, is more safety testing, less consumerism, less ads, less surveillance, less nazis, and less money going to fascists.
Oh I’m explicitly not talking about tesla here. But yes, those are all good points that I agree with.
Giving money to fascists includes Toyota/Lexus/Subaru, Ford/Aston Marton/Lincoln/Land Rover/Mazda, GM/Cadillac/Chevrolet/GMC/, Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche/Lamborghini and the other companies that are either donating to fascists directly or are helping them materially in other ways.
Lower price, too.
