Since Trump’s election, gun groups catering to progressives and people of color report a surge in interest as they look to defend themselves in a country that, to them, feels increasingly unstable.
Gun owner and former military. One can purchase a rifle or pistol, but if you are not constantly training, muscle memory, with live rounds and maintaining your physical and mental fitness, you will fuck it up. The things I could do in my past, I can no longer replicate them with the speed and efficiency I once had.
Trans person here who’s been attacked by a neo-Nazi - I really, really wish I had my gun at the time. Because, without it I was in a situation where I either had to let him kill me (not a good option) or pull a knife on him and at least try to seem crazy enough that he knew he’d be badly hurt too. Luckily that worked for me. If I’d had my gun, I could have at least drawn on him and told him that he was going to leave me be or die. My chances of survival would likely have been higher had I had my gun on me at the time.
Lifelong anti-gun libtard here.
I’ve been doing my research and talking to friends with guns so I can begin the process of arming myself.
Fascism is here and I passed my history classes. I know where this is going. It’s time to make sure you, and everyone you know, is armed to the teeth.
If things keep escalating, which they will, because that’s what fascists do, then there will come a day when they attempt to prevent anyone who registered/voted Democrat from purchasing firearms.
Buy them. Now.
Never voted for any Republican anything my entire life. Have been buying guns for myself and my family for over a decade.
Please share your viewpoint with those in your circle of influence, as we will need more of this going forward.
Also, don’t just buy a pistol. Buy a shotgun and a rifle.
Be safe.
Don’t forget silent weapons like slingshots and bows/arrows. It’s going to freak them out when they look down and see an arrow sticking out of their chest.
Contact or join your local SCA group. They may be anachronists as opposed to anarchists, but if you want to learn how make and use weapons and armor of that sort there are few more accessible teachers and trainers.
One of them made large amounts of basic body armor from heavy gauge plastic barrels for use by protesters a few years back. They may not stop bullets, but they are very_ effective versus “non-lethal” rounds and similar.
And yes, the person did get a visit from the FBI, who let the person keep on making as they weren’t working on weapons of any sort. Just the armor.
Why, oh, why?
Because they are left winged terrorists who want to violently impose their ‘peaceful’ ways upon us
FFS am I the only one here with a sarcasm detector? I may be British, but I don’t like to stereotype.
You mean rise up against tyranny, which is what the 2nd amendment is all about.
Or maybe just defend themselves and their families against the MAGAs who have been telling us for YEARS that they can’t wait to start killing us. It’s just a matter of time before the illegitimate MAGA government unclips the leash, and lets them loose.
Violence must not be answered with violence but with love and understanding.
Do not fight back, run towards them for hugs. Line up for them.
Really? When has that worked?
Violence must not be answered with violence
Found the loser who’s never read a history book.
You forgot the /s and some ppl downvoted you thinking you were serious
left winged terrorists
Yup. Your IQ is about what I expected it to be. Below room temperature.
Too few, too little, too late.
I hope not, but I think a lot of them are still living with the fear of yesteryear that has not updated with the times and the threat of their neighbors having it in for them, and not being as worried about the legal repercussions.
Too few, too little, too late.
Literally. They made gun ownership an obsessively partisan subject specifically so the other side wouldn’t be armed, neutering the left’s political capital.
Trump is only in power right now and wrecking our constitution and nation because despite having a minority support base, that base is the most unhinged, heavily-armed, devotely loyal group in the country. It’s the rawest, purest form of power. That’s what Jan 6th was about, he had no intention of actual insurrection, he just wanted to demonstrate that he could turn his people on a target. It was an arms test, like detonating a nuke in the Nevada desert. “I can do this anytime I want.”
Up until very recently, most of the deaths in wars were caused by disease instead of combat.
Give it a few months and the anti-vax stances paired with colloidal silver and horse-dewormer will leave plenty of guns and ammo for everyone.
To shoot ICE in their stupid fat faces.
As they come crashing though your door.
Specifically. You can’t afford anything but the most crystal clear case of self defence.
Also leftists. Also rightists.
So, basically, people from every political background are buying guns.
The warmongers win again.
While the pacifists did jack shit to stop this.
Zapp: I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
Um…they’re pacifists? Maybe you mean a different word?
I think they’re blaming pacifists for not being violent
Liberals, LGBTQ, whoever else was mentioned in this headline should have been training with guns for years at this point. The writing has been on the wall for a while.
I was anti-gun until I was 37. That’s when I realized it doesn’t matter about my political viewpoint regarding guns, the right has been using it as leverage for my entire life.
I’m 42 now. I got my first rifle when I was 38. I got my first shotgun when I was 39. I got my first pistol when I was 40. I go bi-weekly to the range.
The writer of the article should try harder to not confuse “interest” with preparation. This shit is an unwelcome use of my free time, but I’m probably a better shot than 90% of MAGA at this point.
As someone who used to create judgemental use of force firearm training simulators for law enforcement, I can tell you right now you’re likely a better shot than 90% of our police force too.
Yikes, that makes me feel uneasy. Do they not train on a regular basis?
By policy, it’s different per police organization. But overwhelmingly the biggest orgs only force training once a year. And the metrics they use to pass for accuracy and use are lower than most concealed carry courses.
…they do if you can believe it.
I thought they did too, that’s why I’m not so sure that I’m the better shot. I was thinking that I’m maybe on par with someone else that trains regularly.
Just following up from my previous answer: MOST officers only need to pass training on use of firearms once a year. It does vary per department, and some officers use their access to training and ranges to hone their skills. But MOST of them only follow the guidelines, and most guidelines only require recertifying firearm use once a year.
The writing has been on the wall for a while
I saw this coming when the tea party appeared. Moved my wife and daughters out of the US in 2015 for precisely this reason. When I lived there I owned a rifle and a shotgun, not because I thought I’d need to defend myself against criminals or immigrants, but because I thought there was a pretty good chance I’d have to defend myself against right wingers.
Concur, I saw it back then too. I wanted to leave but didn’t have the financial resources to do so at the time. Now that I have the resources, I’m too old for most places. The way I see it now is that I’m pretty much just hanging around so that my parents don’t have to outlive their children. I bought my rifle and shotgun for the same reason you had yours. I’ve been hearing threats from the right AT LEAST since the 1990s. It’s always been threats…
We are lucky. I’m Australian and lived in the US from 2005 to 2015, so it was easy for us to move. I think what really tipped my wife over the edge was going to watch our daughter’s kindergarten class Christmas concert on the day of the Sandy Hook shooting. That was the most surreal experience of my life, just typing it now still chokes me up a bit. It’s fucking sad, because there was a lot that I loved about the states.
It’s starting.
Don’t be a fool. Everyone in America has guns or access to them. It’s trivial to buy one and many on the left own them all the same as anyone else.
Like 40% of American households own guns. Most gun owners just own multiple. Leftist should either arm themselves in preparation or be prepared to be trampled on.
Thats a nice lie that left/center leaning people keep telling themselves.
The reality is that republicans by far have a higher percentage of gun owners.
If there were a fight that started today, there would be a sweep.
Then you have to remember that every force of violence in the US, LEOs, all branches of military, all support trump.
Then you have to remember that every force of violence in the US, LEOs, all branches of military, all support trump.
So, what kind of gun can I buy that will let me defend myself from a tyrannical reaper drone?
Or maybe planning to fight your enemy where he is strongest is fucking dumb?
A gun does not defend you from a drone. It defends you from other people who are emboldened to commit crimes against you.
The point later in the comment is about what happens if the government fully turns in the citizens. Protecting yourself is midway to that.
You basically can’t let it get that far or you’re just cooked.
It defends you from other people who are emboldened to commit crimes against you.
No, it doesn’t defend you. At best, it will give you a chance to shoot back. Statistically speaking, the person you are most likely to use a gun on is yourself, second most likely victim of a gun is your spouse.
No, the difference is, you believe all the bullshit. And I’m wise enough not to.
I’m not sure you can even vocalize what you’re trying to say here.
The facts are just not in your favour.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/24/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/
Key excerpt:
45% of Republicans and GOP-leaning independents say they personally own a gun, compared with 20% of Democrats and Democratic leaners.
You’ll find that all available information says similar.
Republicans have a much higher percentage of gun ownership than democrats.
It’s not just that they own more guns per individual. They have more individuals with guns.
I’m pretty sure what they are saying is that they don’t believe a civil war (or similar) is starting.
There are millions of people in the US - if there was really an appetite for mass violence in the populace, it would’ve already revealed itself.
Accept that we are relatively peaceful in modern times and rethink your beliefs. Not many are willing to shoot their neighbor and contribute to the destruction of society because of the theater playing out in our government, politics, and media.
Here’s a hypothetical for you to digest:
Would even the people deepest in the MAGA movement want their children to exist in a world where they aren’t safe due to political violence and civil war? Could they reasonably protect them in such a reality?
Interesting that you think illegal kidnapping, unabated corruption, and disassembly of government institutions is theater.
I can say safely that it’s set in the context of theater with all the propaganda flying around, but there are real things happening through carefully crafted circumstances and framing. If you understood my intentions you would realize what I really meant instead of smearing me.
There are millions of people in the US - if there was really an appetite for mass violence in the populace, it would’ve already revealed itself.
This is insane logic to me when the president is clearly gearing up to do violence against the people, and the violent rhetoric is at an all time high.
“it hasn’t happened yet, so it wont happen despite all the signs saying it will” is such a bad take its unimaginably bad.
Accept that we are relatively peaceful in modern times and rethink your beliefs.
There are literally multiple genocides happening right now. There are literally people being disappeared off the streets with no trials, identification and we don’t know where they are ending up.
This is just an insane take.
They fucking stormed the capital!
Would even the people deepest in the MAGA movement want their children to exist in a world where they aren’t safe due to political violence and civil war?
Yes??? Are you not hearing these people. Holy fuck.
This is a new level of sticking ones head in the sand.
Could they reasonably protect them in such a reality?
No, but they value hate above incredible personal sacrifice, hence their voting choices.
This is insane logic to me when the president is clearly gearing up to do violence against the people, and the violent rhetoric is at an all time high.
And yet he hasn’t been able to - because despite all the propaganda, he can’t justify it to his base. They have to resort to playing old protest footage and making up easily disprovable lies to rile people up - does that not read as desperate to you?
People are not taking the bait on either side. Stop acting like he (and the people influencing him) already won. They haven’t, and they won’t.
There are literally multiple genocides happening right now.
Despite the world population exploding, there has historically been much worse happening - and at much greater scales.
There are literally people being disappeared off the streets with no trials, identification and we don’t know where they are ending up.
Which unfortunately isn’t an entirely new occurrence if you look it up. These people have been living here and working here in massive amounts, and they have always lived under the threat of deportation, discrimination, and living as modern slaves - with very little recourse.
Under this administration, it’s certainly much more well-funded, it’s much more chaotic, it’s much more performative in the way it’s being done, and people being denied due process and getting shipped away to death camps and countries they’ve never been to is obviously extremely concerning and is not a positive trajectory (and is not performative, it’s very real).
It’s not an indicator that there is a civil war on the horizon though.
They fucking stormed the capital!
Everybody was free to do something tangible about that, including the people who held power after that event.
Yes??? Are you not hearing these people. Holy fuck.
No, you are hearing the most vocal and insane examples through social media and other forms of media. Most people are not violent, believing others need to be shot because their politics differ. People are densely packed in with each other and nobody has fortresses besides the very rich. A civil war is not sustainable anywhere here in the US.
No, but they value hate above incredible personal sacrifice, hence their voting choices.
They are being manipulated into believing this is a matter of survival. They are led to believe that they are 1) voting in their best interest 2) that if they vote differently, people will take what they earned and worked hard for 3) that the other side is demonic, woke, and ineffectual. Hate doesn’t factor into the equation for most of these people.
The world is a different place outside of social media and partisan media. Ground yourself, considering connecting with your community by attending an event or group or potentially volunteering your time, and understand that things are not always exactly how they are presented by those that literally thrive on our attention.
77 million people voted for Trump. There are over 340 million people in the US. Let that sink in and please consider reevaluating your beliefs.
Proclaiming Matthew 25 would diffuse a large part of what is going on - that’s how much of a house of cards this all is.
Every american should be familiar with how guns work because we have to live in a country with more guns than people. Imagine if you’ve never drove, been inside, or even seen a real car your entire life then one day you have to cross a NYC street. Its hard to be safe without the right knowledge.
Every american should be familiar with how guns work
anddd that’s why i don’t goto the USA
Yes do a gun safety course first in your home country
no because i dont hunt so i dont need to use guns.
I don’t hunt either, but shooting can be fun.
They said need.
They clearly arent interested in it for fun.
You can be performatively afraid of something you will likely never have an issue with for no other reason than a thing existing, that’s fine and your prerogative.
But most people here already know you are far less likely to even have issues with entry into the US or with the people who live here than even media is making it out. Millions of people from all continents pass in and out of the US daily. You’re in far more danger being a grade-school or high-school student in the US than a foreign traveler or visitor.
To the kiddoes who get down this far, there are 500 million citizens in the US and murder is still rare enough that it makes the news. Not always, but often. While other countries have less violent crime, broadly our whole world is at an all-time low in violence despite what your local for-profit media company wants you to think. Yes, the US has woefully outdated gun laws, but our primary problem here is fear. The same fear that makes you think the US is a violent wasteland of shootouts on every corner, that’s the same fear that makes people here cling to guns. You’re not hurting me by whinging that you will “never set foot in the US” I literally do not care, so ask yourself who you’re performing for, and if you’re just needlessly adding to the narratives of fear, and why it makes you feel good to do so. Who do you want to feel bad and why?
Yeah nah bud. You’re arresting people trying to leave your country, tourists are getting roughed up, and violence from the government is increasing.
I think your tourism deserves to decrease and you deserve to sleep in the bed you’ve made.
I agree 100% with everything you wrote here, and none of it has anything to do with the exchange I had with the other user.
Except for this:
you
I am not my government.
You was speaking in countr terms as was the your before it.
Even still, its like, there is no “we only support the non fascists” from a foreign perspective when it comes to tourism unfortunately.
I mean there is a little bit when it comes to trade, like trading with blue states, but like, its all very intertwined to where youll be funding the fascist regime.
performatively afraid
I can’t get over how this is phrased. It feels so dismissive.
That would be because I am dismissing it.
Blocked
How ever will I recover from this blow
naw thanks, i don’t think people should have a right to own a firearm. not a safe country.
I get the sentiment but most countries on Earth have armed citizens. You have effectively negated yourself from traveling across much of Asia, much of Africa, South America and several prominent European nations where citizens are armed.
No country is “safe” and you will live in misery and fear if you deny yourself the ability to travel and have new experiences because some people may or may not own weapons.
Load of bullshit from an American Exceptionalism expert.
I’ve been all over the world, people carry guns. People shoot in the air to celebrate, people keep guns on their mantles, people keep guns to defend against predators, people carry guns because there are vast, vast areas of Earth that are not patrolled by police. Are these bad people?
It’s pretty bigoted to look down on these people for the circumstances and regions they live, but yeah go ahead and lecture someone for being an American.
edit: i can clearly see by your moderation history that I shan’t be investing a shred of mental energy your way. Go ahead and troll into the void, I won’t see it.
Please take your gun apologia somewhere else.
The number one killer of children in America.
The answer is yes, you are a bad person for promoting this nonsense.
dude i never plan to leave my country, so im good. dont worry.
Sounds good, enjoy your bubble. Hope nothing there ever changes.
i will enjoy my bubble thanks. canada is the best place to live!
There are so, so many other great reasons too.
To be clear your reason is a great reason. There are just so many others, too.
oh trust me i know, i haven’t liked america for a very long time.
Good for you!
yes, yes it is :)
This is literally pathetic. Talk about being gun oppressed and loving it.
Not much you can do when most people in the country already own guns. If someone points a gun at you, you’ll be wishing you had your own. This is mostly an American problem though and we’re fucked. At this point we all need guns because those psychotic fucks are coming for us daily. With how things are progressing so fast I’m just waiting for the day they show up at my door for voting Democrat in a Republican state. I’ve got my guns and I won’t go down easily.
Yeah, self defense fantasies are a mental illness bro. Love you, get some help.
I’d love to never have to own a gun. When I was 5 years old a woman put a loaded gun in my face and cocked it to threaten my parents. It’s not a fantasy, it’s a fucking NIGHTMARE. So yes, my fears are a mental illness. Thanks.
You are just one of many living in this nightmare. You know what it is like to jump for cover everytime someone shoots a gun in an urban setting? Millions of Americans get to experience this psychological abuse everyday.
I am sorry to hear your horrible experience. I have lost several people in my life to gun violence. I know women who were raped at gun point. I have had multiple guns shoved in my face growing up. Fuck guns and everyone who defends this shit show.
Lol I know exactly what it’s like to jump for cover every time someone shoots a gun, I still have to fight that instinct. There were bullet holes in the front door of my family home and on the side of the house. I was taught to lay on the ground every time we heard gun shots. When I held my first gun 5 years ago I was trembling and crying from fear of the damn thing. I LIVED THROUGH ALL OF THIS. I cannot and will not defend gun culture. When nearly the entire population has them and is willing to use them against you at a moments notice, you don’t have much of a choice. Since I am a woman, and as you pointed out I am at risk, I have more need than a man to conceal carry.
The point I’m trying to make is bitch all you want about guns in America. Call us morons for having guns, it doesn’t matter. Bitching won’t change anything. Someone has to take all the guns away before a change can be made and I’m willing to bet that’ll never happen in our lifetime. We’ll continue to be terrorized until our deaths. Might as well defend yourself if you can.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything including defending yourself. I do not agree with arming yourself, but that is just because your more likely to be injured.
Must be nice to go through life never having to worry about your personal safety. Fuck you and your privilege.
I am not a childlike, hence why I know guns are not the solution to your imaginary problems.
I didn’t say you were childlike. Use your eyes. Read again. I said you are privileged.
What’s the solution to a political party using firearms as leverage in a country that puts firearms in its governing document.
I absolutely LOVE reading these wildly naive takes. Go for it!
I implied you were childlike.
I love people who have no clue about the destruction and violence gun culture has caused us. This learned helplessness you have developed is impressive.
A fascist government takeover is imaginary? Fuck give me whatever glue you’re sniffing so I can be as dumb and ignorant as you.
Fascists thrive on violence, so if your suggesting that as a solution then you are playing right into their hands.
I’m not sure how you’re getting that out of what they posted. Reads more “know thine enemy” than power fantasy to me.
If know thine enemy is code for living in an oppressive gun nut culture where we lose around fifty thousand Americans to gun violence every year, then sure.
Number one killer of children in the US and the best we can muster is, “You have got to be familiar with guns because we are surrounded by them.” This is the definition of pathetic resignation.
Sorry I forgot that I can just wiggle my nose and make it go away. It’s the reality of the situation, like it or not.
Dealing with our problems isn’t easy. I guess we can just go back ignoring it. Cheers!
You can acknowledge present reality while also trying to change it. They’re not mutually exclusive.
No one can actually acknowledge what is happening though. Our entire society in the US is in denial.
Do stand your ground laws apply when a warrantless unidentified “federal agent” comes to your door because anyone with sense would fear for their lives?
“federal” or “feral”?
Short answer is “It depends.”
If a masked, unidentified individual with a weapon is in your home, it will very likely apply.
Interestingly enough; this hasn’t happened yet. It’s almost like they know which places not to fuck with, even though there isn’t an official national gun registry or anything.
I mean… Amazon purchases can be tracked. I wonder if buying CLP or a boresnake gets someone put on a “do not try” list.
Interestingly enough; this hasn’t happened yet.
Most gun enthusiasts are all barrel and no bullets.
They got the guns in the first place because they’re actually scared little boys with an inferiority complex. No amount of guns toys will ever compensate for their small dick energy.
It will be interesting to see if the new market has a better use for the arms.
People have legally defended themselves in that situation, yes- but first you have to survive until your court date.
I’m surprised something like that hasn’t already happened.
One of the more telling aspects of who ICE is targeting.
No, but that shouldn’t stop people from standing their ground.
I’ve decided on a shotgun. With buckshot you don’t have to aim, you get multiple shots, it’s inexpensive and you can hit multiple targets in unarmored areas. It’s just for home defense, I’m not sure if we should be carrying outside. We have to be careful though, life is worth saving not shooting.
Just a heads up, the whole “you don’t have to aim” is a complete myth. Shotgun spread is completely blown out of proportion. It’s somewhere around 0.5" to 1" per yard with barrel length, choke, and shot type affecting spread. Unless you’re insanely rich and live in a mansion, you’d be within 10 yards so you’d only get 5" to 10" of spread which really isn’t much especially since the pellets may not be evenly distributed within that diameter.
For anyone looking to buy a gun, educate yourself first to know what you’re getting into and go to the range consistently so you know how to use it. If you don’t do both of those, you’d be at risk of hurting yourself or someone else if ever you have to use it in a life or death situation.
I appreciate your feedback. I’ll think about it. Ar-15 was my other choice. If it was legal id buy a rocket launcher and just blow the whole house up because at that point fuck it…
SupraMario is right about getting an ar15. Lots of time and effort went into creating a great system with a well thought out set of compromises. From magazine capacity to parts availability to ergonomics, it’s a really solid system and I highly encourage people who can to own one per person in your household.
AR15 is easy to shoot and aim. It’s also low recoil and weight. People should get them for home defense before getting a shotgun, you’re more likely to miss with a shotgun than an AR
Second this. Unless you’re sawing the barrel to a third, it doesn’t actually work how youd think if you never used a real shotgun.
In reality the best things about shotguns in self defence are that if you miss, you probably dont kill your neighbor. The bad part is there is very little penetration on pellets for any armored target.
You could also just use slugs which do work great for self defense, but can easily kill your neighbor.
You should’ve gone with the Zodiac method.
Pistol and a flashlight in a supportive grip. When you do it right, the “dark spot” at the center of your flashlight beam is your general point of aim. Once you build that muscle memory, it’s better than a crosshair on a TV screen.
Unless you plan to carry concealed or get a concealed carry license skip the pistol for your first gun.
If you want something for home defense that sits by the bed get a 20-gauge pump shotgun. I’ve never met anyone man woman or child that couldn’t shoot one and #3 or #4 buckshot is hard to miss with within 20 or 30 yards. You can go to almost any sporting goods store and pick one up for about $250. I like the Maverick 88.
If you want something to hunt with or just have in case of “troubles” get yourself a decent bolt-action rifle with a 3x9 scope in a popular caliber such as 308 or 270. Rifles are easier to shoot and you can use them for hunting. Once you shoot the rifle a few times and are comfortable with it you can put it away for those “troubles.”
If the US gets ripe enough you need to stack bodies you are going to want a rifle more than a pistol and if you have a shotgun or a rifle you can pick up a pistol, there will be plenty on those bodies you are stacking.
That’s my extremely qualified opinion, but with that said opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
Good luck out there, be safe.
As someone with many years experience, I second this and highly recommend shotguns for home defense.
If you’re ready to move up to mobile defense for whatever reasons, and you’re not someone who dedicates time and money to shooting regularly, I recommend a revolver like a .38, they are simple to operate, accurate, reliable in almost any conditions, almost impossible to jam, easy to see if it’s loaded and ready to fire, and generally much easier to manage and maintain than an automatic.
Very few times in all recorded personal defense situations has anyone ever had to reload, and most of these incidents are over after just a couple rounds are fired. (It’s amazing how people with bad intentions tend to forget about their grievances after just one hole, two will usually do the trick no matter where said holes are.)
I also highly recommend anyone who takes any of this remotely seriously to take some self-defense classes, any kind of martial art, don’t get sucked down any kind of pipeline of people screaming about what style is best for what, literally anything that gets you able to use your arms and legs as defense tools. You desperately need that muscle memory so your first line of defense isn’t the deadly weapon, and so you can survive if you lose your weapon for whatever reason, and not get mentally hung up on having a gun always.
If you have the money just get an AR 15. There is a reason it’s so popular.
There could be a world ending apocalypse and you’ll still find parts and ammo. And it’s an incredibly well rounded platform that’s pretty easy to use.
you think a 12 gauge is going to be harder to find parts and ammo for?
Ignoring that a shotgun isnt nearly as useful and will rounded, yes, shotguns in general are not as ubiquitous or popular.
In 2021, 21,037,810 total firearms were available for the U.S. market, which includes firearms that were domestically produced plus those imported—minus exported firearms. Of those, 12,799,067 were handguns, 4,832,198 were rifles and 3,406,545 were shotguns.
You’re ignoring usecase, and the fact that even according to your facts, they’re super popular.
I mean that is great but im betting a large majority of shotguns are 12 gauge and use very similar parts and a less percentage of rifles are ar15. Also shotguns are about the simplest gun designs.
Also, the US Military used 5.56 ammo, so if things really go down, you know there’s a supply. Fair note: you can shoot 2.23 ammo with a 5.56 rifle, but you don’t want to put 5.56 in a 2.23.
.223 or 223
2.23 is not a thing 5.56 is the metric measurement of .224 diameter bullets which are used in both 5.56x45mm and .223.
To go deeper, a civilian .223 Remington is almost identical to the military 5.56x45mm. Both use a bullet diameter of .224 and a weight between 40 grains and 77 grains. The differences without getting super technical are in SAAMI pressures. A .223 Remington cartridge produces less pressure than the military 5.56x45mm. You can shoot both out of a rifle marked 5.56x55mm or .223 Wylde but it is not recommended that you shoot 5.56x45mm in a rifle marked .223 Remington.
.223 Remington (SAAMI MAP): 55,000 psi (≈379.2 MPa) maximum average pressure (piezo).
5.56×45 mm NATO (NATO/EPVAT service pressure): ≈ 62,366 psi (≈ 430 MPa) service pressure (piezo).
Since we’re having fun, the other difference between .223 and 5.56 is the throat length, with 5.56 being longer. Wylde not only supports the higher pressure, but also splits the difference in the chamber to account for the difference in throats.
I.e., a .223 Wylde chamber has a longer throat than a .223 Remington chamber, but a shorter one than a 5.56 NATO chamber, which allows it to accurately fire both .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO ammunition.
I’ve been told shooting .223 in a 5.56 will wear out the chamber faster… but haven’t exactly tested that.
5.56 rounds over penetrates less than 9mm and less than many different shot shells too. I like HD 9mm rounds but the AR platform for home defense is a smart choice.
And I’m not saying it’s ideal, but you’ll still take a deer down in some insane scenario where you’re hunting for food.
Ive heard even 9mm higher pressure rounds through a carbine length barrel can stop some bears. Im not saying I’d trust it to be my first choice in that situation but I’d wager if you get good enough with 5.56 there’s not much you wouldn’t be able to stop with a couple follow up shots or hunt with a good first shot.
When I thought about buying a shotgun I looked into rock salt and other non lethal ammo, it turns out it’s illegal to load shells with rock salt. Hard to believe
Because you shouldn’t use a gun unless deadly force is warranted.
What about less than lethal ammunition, like rubber bullets that cops get to use on protesters?
It’s less-lethal, not nonlethal. Even blanks can be deadly. A gun should only be pointed at something you’re willing to destroy.
Cops are not held to as high of standards as everyone else. This should not come as a great revelation.
You can use a shotgun loaded only with rock salt even when deadly force is warranted. You can also not use a gun at all in situations that would allow deadly force. Not everybody wants to kill someone.
If you go through a defensive carry class you’d almost certainly be discouraged from doing that by the instructor for multiple reasons:
First is that all ammo can be lethal, even blanks. So if you’re not willing to kill to protect your own life, that may cause it anyway. On the flip side, a prosecutor will argue that if lethal ammunition wasn’t required, then use of a gun wasn’t necessary and you’ve not only broken firearm discharge laws (in place where most people live), but are also guilty of assault with a weapon with intent to kill or maim.
Firing a gun in self-defense is only warranted if nonlethal means are insufficient. If you try using less-lethal ammo and it doesn’t stop your attacker, you’re killed or seriously injured. If you try using less-lethal ammo and it does stop your attacker, you’re still screwed by the legal system (possibly except under some “stand your ground” laws).
That’s not very american of you. You have to be ready to shoot and kill anyone apparently
Wait you’re telling me the salt shotgun of Scrooge McDuck is real?
I got shot with salt by a farmer when I was a kid. It’s definitely real and scroogy old bastards seem to like it.
Yeah, https://www.bullseye-cartridge.com/12ga-2-3-4-rock-salt-5-pack.html it’s ammunition not the gun exactly, but it’s kinda the OG old school less than lethal round.
I bought my first gun, a shotgun, two month ago for home defense. I also got some of these home defense rounds, it looks like little plates stacked up inside the shell. I guess they aren’t supposed to penatrate drywall, so they are safer to use inside a house to reduce accidental or unintentional injuries.
i dunno, i just call the cops but mabye thats just me.
So then you get to deal with armed fascist thugs in addition to whatever problem you were trying to solve by calling the cops. And guess what, if a fascist attacks you and you call the cops, you’re likely calling their buddies, who won’t be happy with you. At least, in my experience in the US.
Fun way to tell everyone that you’re white, or not living in America.
actually im southern Italian/Lebanese so my skin is tanned and have been in trouble with the police before. Stop making everything about race.
Oh, so there was a comma in my comment. My assumption was right.
When seconds count, the cops are minutes away. You do you though and good luck.
Clearly, you are not in the US.
why, is there no cops in the US?
Cops in the US are a whole different breed of fucked up
Because they almost always make the situation worse.
Big difference between having cops, and having cops that you can trust to protect you.
Also, even if for argument’s sake we assume that the police will act in your best interest when they show up, not everyone lives in a large city where you’re never more than five minutes away from a cop. The US is huge, and the vast majority of it is rural and isolated. If you live in one of those places help from police might be hours away rather than minutes. You’re on your own until they show up. If they show up at all.
But what if I’m not feeling suicidal?
i dont know what that has to do with cops
Because in numerous cases, the cops have attacked the victims when responding to a call. If you are a minority it’s even more likely. Combine that with a white attacker, even more likely.
oh never seen that before that much, ive seen some cops do some stupid shit, but it doesnt seem like a widespread issue.
Are you familiar with the expression “[the thin blue line](Are you familiar with the expression “the thin blue line” and mindset that it reinforces?)” and the mindset that it reinforces?
Are you familiar with the “warrior” training so many police go through, where they are trained to see threats from everywhere and to prioritize their own lives above others?
Are you aware that, legally, cops aren’t obligated to protect you if you aren’t in their custody?
Did you see the footage from the Uvalde school shooting?
All of these combine together to result in so many instances of police escalating tense situations instead of de-escalating those situations. It results in police shooting innocent people because they thought they saw a gun. Like I said, if you are a minority things tend to be much worse. You’re likely guilty of something in their eyes, even if the cop is a minority.
And that’s what makes it clear you’re not American.
You’re very fortunate. I live in a place in the US where it’s a toss up on whether the cops will even show up. I’ve called an ambulance for it to never show up before. Unfortunately we’re on our own and have to take matters into our own hands if we expect to survive. Guns are a plague but there’s not much that can be done at this point. We must protect our families.
Following up on your comment, there’s plenty of places in the US where you don’t call the cops as a non-white person at all; since the cops have gone out and shot the brown person that called them… since you know, the cops commonly assume the brown person is the perpetrator.
I disagree on a shotgun for HD, pistols are more manueverable, easier to go through doorways, and harder to disarm. The only caveat is normal pistol rounds will over penetrate furthet than bird shot, but other types of shot can over penetrate as much as 9mm. 5.56 rounds actually overpentrate less than 9mm and some people use AR pistols, or full sized ARs, for HD because of this. You don’t want bullets flying through walls you can’t see through, and Id highly recommend agaist anything pump action especially for someone who isnt going to practice cycling the weapon.
For most people a shotgun for HD is the way to go.
For someone that knows a thing or two, I agree with you… pistol or SBR… I just don’t think that’s most people.
Most people who buy shotguns are gonna end up with a pump shotgun and that’s a big downside for anyone whos not practicing cycling the weapon because in terms of stopping power follow up shots outclass bigger bullet every time. A pump action is setting up beginners to fail at following up more than any other common HD weapon. Most semi auto shotguns cost at least double what pumps do and are more expensive than comprable pistols and even solid budget rifles. I stand by my recommendations, if someone really wants a shotgun and they’re new, insist on a semi auto, but that’s the minority.
This! The over penetration is why Shotgun is better especially for more dense areas such as apartments.
