Let’s just declare victory after losing!

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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    3 days ago

    And EU will be stronger than ever.

    I doubt it. The EU faces the same fundamental problem as the US: Powerful, greedy and unresponsive elites unwilling to compromise with their subjects. I think we’re more likely to see an overall weaker and somehow even more dysfunctional EU with Ukraine as a counterbalance to its traditional Western and Northern European power base (assuming the EU doesn’t drop the ball on Ukrainian recovery like it repeatedly did on the war).

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      I disagree with everything you write.
      We may also have a greedy elite, but the scale of the problem is way less than what it is in USA. They are both not as rich, and their power is way better regulated, for instance we don’t have the moronic super packs. With Russia collapsing and losing the war to Ukraine, EU countries that are acting in the interest of Russia, will be way less of a problem, and the traditional values of Democracy in EU will be reestablished.
      I absolutely see Ukraine as less of a problem in EU than UK used to be. EU may need to be reformed to manage the big number of member states better. But EU has proven able to act when necessary during the Ukraine war. This is the opposite of dysfunctional despite countries like Hungary and Slovakia that are serving Russian interests.
      Also around the world the respect for EU is increasing, and acknowledgement of how EU works for international law, is recognized as being different from USA, where previously we were seen as an American puppet, EU is making itself more independent of USA, and we are distancing ourselves from USA way more than at any point since WW2.

      This will pave the way for way bigger international recognition and cooperation, and make EU stronger both internally and in outside relations. EU is built on cooperation that benefit us all, this is both among the member countries, and with EU allies and trading partners.

      I’m not saying we will surpass China, but we can work with China on a reasonably level playing field, and the same with USA, where USA used to dominate, that domination will soon be over if it isn’t already.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        14 hours ago

        Okay you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the current state of the EU.

        They are both not as rich, and their power is way better regulated, for instance we don’t have the moronic super packs.

        Regulations are tools for the elites to protect democracy (or generally their preferred status quo); they’re useless (or less than useless, see: Germany and Palestine) when the elites don’t want the thing you want. That’s why the so-called political opposition is so soft on fascism and incapable of providing credible alternatives to it; they’re not paid to do that.

        With Russia collapsing and losing the war to Ukraine, EU countries that are acting in the interest of Russia, will be way less of a problem, and the traditional values of Democracy in EU will be reestablished.

        No offense, but this is downright naive. Russia is a backer of fascism in the West, but it’s far from the cause. Fascism isn’t something that just appears because a bunch of internet trolls want it to; it’s a tool for the elites to distract from their intentional misgovernance. The Nazis didn’t need Russia to bankroll them. If democracy was working you wouldn’t get fascism. Besides, TF do you mean “collapse?” Why are you assuming that Russia will collapse? There’s literally no indication of that happening. Even a significantly weakened Russia can and will keep backing the far right.

        But EU has proven able to act when necessary during the Ukraine war.

        Uh… the EU spent three years putting all sorts of limits and conditions on the weapons they export to Ukraine, still can’t get off its ass and take Russian money in its banks and has done nothing to restrain the US and Israel from messing up geopolitics in ways that harm it and Ukraine. If reform was forthcoming, it’d have happened to free that hundred billion dollars of Ukraine aid that Hungary is holding up. And this is before we even get to the consistent failure of most member states to meaningfully address the most important crises of the day, such as the climate crisis, the housing crisis, the demographic crisis and the ongoing fuel crisis. Meanwhile they adopt the far right’s anti-immigrant and (even more) pro-rich platform, to the active detriment of all the preceding crises and to the advantage of the fascists. Again, if the EU wasn’t a dysfunctional mess, the far right wouldn’t find such purchase in most of its member states. There’s a reason it’s called Alternativ fur Deutschland, not It’s Going Super Well fur Deutschland.

        Also around the world the respect for EU is increasing, and acknowledgement of how EU works for international law, is recognized as being different from USA, where previously we were seen as an American puppet,

        Uh… got a source for that? Because let me tell you, y’all are still rightly seen as American puppets outside the Global North bubble. Besides, the EU’s commitment to international law is almost as much of a joke as international law itself; you can tell Palestinians about how the EU works for international law.

        This will pave the way for way bigger international recognition and cooperation, and make EU stronger both internally and in outside relations. EU is built on cooperation that benefit us all, this is both among the member countries, and with EU allies and trading partners.

        Literally none of this is based in reality. For a representative example of the EU decidedly not benefiting trading partners, look up EU fishing in West Africa.