If you haven’t seen this yet, Google is planning to require mandatory developer identity verification for all Android apps, including apps distributed outside the Play Store, taking effect September 2026. This affects every independent and open source Android developer directly.
This is not just about the Play Store. After September 2026, on any certified Android device, applications from unverified developers will be blocked by default. The only proposed bypass, the “advanced flow”, exists only as a blog post and has not appeared in any beta, dev preview, or canary release. No one outside Google has seen it.
The community has been fighting back at keepandroidopen.org:
- Read the full breakdown of what this means
- Sign the open letter (organisations only)
- Contact your national regulators — contacts listed by country on the site
- Add the countdown banner to your project
September 2026 is closer than it looks. The time to push back is now.
There actually has been an update on this. The advanced flow has been revealed and it’s like a 24-hour wait and a few prompts to go through and I’ll reboot and enabling developer mode… Bit of friction but all in all it’s better than nothing I guess.
The dev verification is “optional”. With the condition that if a developer doesn’t then users can only install after jumping through a few hoops.
Yeah at least it’s better than Apple’s approach, where you have to connect your phone to a PC once every 7 days to reactivate Developer Mode. Don’t have a computer? Fuck you!
That said, I have zero faith in Google sticking with the compromise solution in the long run. They’re going to try to force the change on everyone again in the future, once they’ve broken us down a bit more.
Meanwhile at least we have a little longer than September before they actually ruin the platform completely… How long? Who could say but I’ll take what small victories I can get
verified but still not responsible.
Google is the biggest threat to anything good in technology, this cancer must be eradicated
Starting to think phones should just go back to being exclusively for calling and texting anyway, maybe emailing too. Everything else can be done from a laptop. Does it really make our lives better to have access to everything through our phones?
I do like being able to look things up on a browser and I use the gps mapping a lot but most of the other stuff is fluff.
Yeah, I’m not dragging a laptop around everywhere with me to search business opening hours / locations etc
Sure, mapping and locale data is extremely helpful and makes up a significant portion of what I use my phone for when I’m out and about. My question is more geared towards whether the ability to bank, shop or use social media from my phone is really necessary.
Obviously, it’s a personal choice and I’m more thinking aloud when I question whether I’d be okay with the trade-off of having a phone with fewer capabilities.
This is what happens when you don’t have strong competitors. We need to promote more independent OS platforms for smartphones like Linux distros.
AKA: Don’t waste time and energy fighting google, spend it helping GNU phones.
Which GNU project are you buying from/supporting?
You don’t need to wait for confirmation someone else is doing x before doing x yourself. Take the first step!
I’m confused about what point you’re making here. @kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com is asking for recommendations. How do they “take the first step” when they have no idea what’s good? Especially when they’re talking to someone who seems to already know which ones are good, and it’s very easy to ask their knowledgeable opinion.
You’re assuming kbobabob is asking that question in good faith, while thenoirwolfess seems to believe they might be asking in bad faith (i.e., rhetorically asking as a “call out” because they assume leftascenter isn’t actually supporting a GNU phone project)
Stop overthinking it. This is a platform for discussion. Let people ask a damn question.
This is called explaining. I think the issue here is a lack of thinking on your part
Indeed, I assumed sarcasm, and replied as if kbobabob was sincere and honestly thinking of supporting a GNU project but would only support whichever ones leftascenter are supporting. My own bias played a part in my interpretation, as I believe that at this point any community GNU project is a worthy project.
Language and emotions are complex aha
I’m pretty unaware of Linux phone projects. Currently on Samsung, but if a good enough Linux phone came along then I’d switch.
Are there actually any projects that are worth it currently? Is it a situation where no one can agree so it’s a fractured space and never really moves forward as a result?
Oh. Well if you’re right, then I just double down. That’s a shitty thing to do. Assuming bad faith tends to be the sign of someone who themselves acts in bad faith. The first comment asked a reasonable question and there was no rational basis on which to assume it was anything other than sincere.
In fairness, plenty of actors are taking steps in doing x, aka, mobile Linux operating systems. It’s difficult as fuck, even for those with lots of experience, in ways that primarily boil down to the proprietary nature of smartphone communications infrastructure because of companies that have taken actions similar to Google, and then were supported by overreaching legislation. (From what I understand)
This shit runs so deep and has been running for so long, but we’ve only recently started hearing more about ongoing projects because of the flagrant privacy violations surrounding us. Just because so many of us only recently started paying attention, myself included, doesn’t mean that these solutions are new.
Both are important.
Legal cases create precedents which can be used to fight similar cases in the future.
In bizarre legislation systems like the US and the UK if I understand it correctly. I hope the EU will find some non BS thing to do stopping this crap.
And that graphene os will come to good cheap phones 😬
have you read the process - it’s all about anti scam which is a billion dollar industry right now
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/03/android-developer-verification.html
We are taking about Google. The US tech company that works with the US government(which is rotted to the core now). No matter how noble the reasons they will tell you for this actions, this identity verification will be used for surveillance and control of personal life. This is basically the same thing as with child safety now.
Every single time competitor appeared, they were ignored. Blackberry, Symbian, Windows 8/Mobile.
Microsoft even tried throwing money at app developers to bridge the biggest gap aka apps, but most companies didn’t even want their money, perceiving porting as too troublesome.
What? BlackBerry was ignored? BlackBerry existed before Android and iOS. It was Android and iOS that killed BlackBerry.
It’s actually a shame, because Windows Phone was actually good. It featured a much more user/task-centric UI, letting users think about what they want to do, rather than which app they need to use to do it. Of course, this was bad for apps’ ability to gain and reinforce brand recognition. So of course they didn’t want to support it.
I was a windows phone user and the last Windows version is to blame for killing their phones. They released a half baked platform that literally required SOAP for all network traffic. No raw TCP or UDP access just SOAP… a horrible standard based on XML with like 10x the overhead. 6.1 was probably the best but even that was plagued by compatibility issues.
Honestly this, I thought the windows phone was really good. That said I’ll never forgive Microsoft for buying nokia and effectively killing Meego (yes I know sailfish is a thing but it’s pretty stunted growth wise)
Graphene os announced a partnership with Motorola. My next phone will be a Motorola with Graphene OS.
I hope Motorola comes out with a Graphene-compatible phone before September.
What other recourse do we have if they don’t?
e/OS on a Fairphone? Sony Xperia?
I’m using a Motorola 5G Ace with /e/ OS and its been a great phone (camera is just OK)
Motorola should make their own wallet app that works on graphene os.
My next phone will be a Motorola with Graphene OS.
I’m thinking maybe my next phone is a dumb phone that can only make calls and maybe text. They still make those, right?
LightPhone?
People don’t get it: it doesn’t matter Graphene or LineageOS. Its still Android and will still be bound to the same limitations, unless you go fully degoogled which means give up on internet banking, cardless payments and government apps. (And much more like m Donalds app and more… But I don’t care for those)
We need open trust platform not one controlled by Google, Graphene or lineage are just not valid alternatives. We need a Linux phone.
I don’t do any of those. It’s easy.
Graphene isn’t a ROM, it is a standalone mobile OS based on the Android Open Source Project. So yes, Google primarily develops it, and has de-facto control. But Graphene is actively working to change that, especially with partnering with OEMs so that they can increase device driver support and give more devs incentive to work on AOSP/Graphene in general. For mobile devices the device drivers are huge, unlike desktop/server linux where MOST (obviously not all) things work.
I beg to defer on the device drivers. Maybe you don’t remember, but it’s been decades before Linux would adapt, reimplement or convince manufacturer to provide drivers for it.
Modems first. Graphics card next. Wi-Fi networks also. Winprinters. They all come to my mind. And it’s only by time and effort that now looks just works everywhere.
And now while graphene indeed is doing a great job that I appreciate very much, at the same time they are not developing an operating system. Google is.
There is a huge effort behind developing a full operating system, and it also requires standardization and somebody who defines what the standards are.
At this point, Google is the only one doing that. And if they go closed doors, no open source AOSP clone could keep up with Google changing standards and still be compatible, which would end up as an incompatible operating system.
My point is that currently Android needs Google, and there is no fooling around. We are years away of being independent from Google, whatever the great effort other developers are doing.
I appreciate everybody’s work and I have been a lineage supporter and maintainer myself.
There are tons of issues that we need to solve to be really independent from Google. Forking he’s the least of those.
I see this take repeated again and again it is simply not true. LineageOS and other FOSS AOSP-derivatives are the best, most-supported and most-accepted FOSS mobile operating systems that we have available to us. And no, you neither have to give up on contactless payments nor on internet banking or government apps. There are many applications that don’t play nice with FOSS Android, but if you make the effort to choose your service providers with intent, so that they are compatible, then it is very much possible to daily-drive a fully de-Googled phone.
I agree with most of everything you wrote.
But banking apps and government apps is not a convenience, is a requirement, especially because, well, by law, they are required to provide an app and there is no choice around it. At least here.
I could indeed go back to bicycle everywhere I want to go and take in the train, but that is not convenience, that is life, so I need a car.
My point is that Google controls Android, whether they graciously allow us to have our foss Android and recompile it from sources is nice, but we still depend on Google and this is not good.
This is what needs to change, and there is no way around it.
WTF are you talking about?
will be bound by the same limitations
It’s based on AOSP (open source). They can easily fork Android and do whatever they want. Open source means full control over software / OS.
Starting from scratch has zero benefits, and only means the experience is shitty and app ecosystem is nonexistent.
give up on internet banking…
And those apps which require hardware verification using Google APIs are available on Linux? How does this equate to “we need a Linux phone”?
The issue, as you said, is “we need an open trust platform”. The best path forward is we push for that so that Graphene and anyone else can us it.
Giving up all the open source work and app ecosystem of Android is irrelevant and only prevents 99.999℅ of people from adopting it.
I am sorry to say that forking AOSP is not an easy solution.
I cannot talk for Grafene as I don’t know much of that organization, but I have been part of the Lineage Os organization for a little bit as a maintainer, and I can tell you that nobody is actually able to start working on such an effort as an AOSP fork.
I would gladly be happy if such a work would actually be maintained and supported long time, but I’m skeptical that anybody but a big organization has a power and a resource is to do so. After all even Linux is actually brought along by lots of organizations and also commercial organizations.
Yes, we need an open source trust platform, and I believe that is the only real way forward. I would vouch for a Linux mobile operating system, but indeed, air truly open, Android would be good as well.
They’re not wrong.
Of course you can fork and have full control over your fork, but Graphene and company want to be able to keep merging AOSP’s code to keep up with features and improvements.
Merging code from a divergent codebase is harder the more divergence there is, and with big codebases it can easily overwhelm small and medium-sized teams.
It’s the same reason there aren’t lots of chromium forks with manifest v2 support, while it is technically feasible, it requires a bigger effort than most projects can afford.
Keeping an open AOSP fork is not a bad idea, but it’s not clear whether GrapheneOS or any other project will be able to keep up with that workload.
Of course Linux phones require a lot of work too, but it’s work oriented towards making it work instead of towards undoing whatever sabotage google ads to AOSP, so it might motivate more people or be easier to do.
Also, both approaches are compatible.
Linux phones can use waydroid, which depends on AOSP, to run Android apps.
https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116261301913660830
Not sure if it applies to users only or to developers making apps too. Anyone knows?
This is a totally unrealted point. This applies to the age verification requirements and not the freedom to install apps outside Google control
We need a Linux phone.
For now a linux phone will still lack native banking apps, cardless payment and government apps. Unless the app can run on a degoogled OS (Graphene, waydroid, etc.).
By open trust platform do you mean something akin to play protect?
Yes an alternative to play protect/play integrity… But at very least not vendor locked
Graphenes is degoogled and can support play services in a locked down environment so it doesn’t have full control of your entire system. Play services is what is expected to be used to do the verification process.
People should just stop being so addicted to convenience.
Quit internet banking and cardless payments.
Quit internet banking? That’s the only form of banking available when the banking offices only have open on every other Tuesday, during the full moon between 11-12:30, closed for an hours lunch.
I don’t care for cardless payments, but I do use internet banking, you cannot do without at least here, and government apps too are useful and doing with out is just… Impossible.
Mobile banking is mandatory here, if not able to do mobile banking then you can use non free SMS messages, which sucks.
Government apps mandatory I mean that without, you are cut from most digital government services, which is not practical at all. Survivable, but a pain.
Found the swede? 🇸🇪😁
No, sono Italiano… But I guess it’s similar across the continent…
You say non free SMS messages as if it’s otherwise “free”, but the product is you.
Utility or privacy, it’s your pick. If you value privacy more, you won’t give in to utility.
Government apps are the only one I think are hard to do without.
You talk of what you don’t know. Bank apps here are mandatory by law. If you don’t or can’t use a bank app then you can use a SMS verification approach where you are required to PAY SMS that the bank sends you.
Receiving SMS here is free, only those from the bank for verification are to be paid without the bank app, it’s just a scam to force you to use the bank app.
The bank app itself is not a scam like a you are the service approach, and it’s not free either as you pay the bank services with your bank account fees already. Maybe you don’t pay a specific fee for the app, bit you already pay your home banking fees anyway.
For me its maps. Getting directions is mostly why im still on /e/. I would love a linux phone! But im stuck at the moment.
Well, FairPhone has GPS support on Ubuntu and that opens the world to a bunch of native GPS apps
Note that I haven’t tested this, I’m an iOS user, but Linux with Fairphone is starting to sound better and better. I moved from Android to iOS because Android started feeling so restrictive compared to what it used to be in the single digit version numbers era, it stopped making sense to prefer it over the more convenient OS. Now it seems Linux on certain phones is starting to get usable enough that it can be what Android used to be a decade ago when I still liked it.
Interesting i may have to give it a shot.
Do let everyone know if you do, I think there’s actually quite a few people here who’d be willing to make the change to Linux if the Fairphone is truly as well supported as the UBPorts website claims
100%. I have one app for work that i also need. Do you happen to know if two oses can work on a phone? Like grub allows?
What about fairphone? A friend has one and choose the “no google” when she bought it. Works kind of apparently.
Ask you friend if the McDonald app works out of the box.
I know, I don’t care for McDonald app as well, but it’s an easy example of a stupid app requiring play certification to work…
This is the route I’ve gone, also if you think any bank, or government is going to suddenly support a Linux phone I’ve got bad news
Given an open certification process anybody could apply and achieve that, at least in theory. Something that with play integrity you cannot being obscured and proprietary.
So who knows, maybe one day even a Linux phone could. But not unless we get an open certification approach.
Hopefully they launch it before September, it certainly seems like it will take longer.
I don’t get it… Google‘s main appeal over Apple is that you can install anything on Android. It runs worse, is less stable and sometimes just does dumb stuff. That’s like if Nintendo would get rid of Mario/Pokémon
I don’t think that’s really the main appeal, honestly. The main appeal is just that it isn’t Apple. And were I someone who didn’t care about the installation of third-party applications, I wouldn’t be running to buy an iPhone. Android is just plain more customizable and if you need a quality of life feature, you’re probably going to find some way to have it.
Android is just plain more customizable and if you need a quality of life feature, you’re probably going to find some way to have it.
Yes.
I used to feel that way about stock Android, but the really useful apps dried up on Google Play a few years back.
Discovering F-Droid brought back the joy of customizing Android, for me.
My conclusions:
- Much of the charm of Android is already gone for the average user, but many haven’t noticed.
- Making F-Droid harder to install isn’t going to help.
I’m not sure what Google has done to alienate the folks writing quality free apps, but whatever it is, most of them are only on F-Droid, already.
This feels like Google is just shutting the door on the walled garden they’ve been building for awhile.
Except now that feature is locked
You can get an iPhone at around 500$. Below that price, sure, Android is good. But once you reach the price at which you could get an iPhone, why not get one in the first place? Android isn’t more customizable in this day and age than iPhone.
Besides custom launchers and icons, the only thing that comes to my mind is custom WhatsApp messaging sound.
That was it before they got a solid fanbase. Now the main appeal is that they are mostly cheaper phones.
Cheaper, but not by far:
iPhone 17 Pixel 10 iPhone 17 Pro Pixel 10 Pro iPhone 17 Pro Max Pixel 10 Pro XL € 979 899 1339 1099 1489 1299 Why make this a table instead of a list?
I just love having to scroll horizontally to read a comment.
You are taking the flagship phones. If you want a simple, functional phone, you can find some decent ones for a price as low as 200€
Indeed, since the company behind Android+PlayServices also sells phones running Android+PlayServices. But aside from this it’s on me for reading something that was not written.
Android’s own appeal probably died somewhere in 2013 or 2014, but it has always kept strong for a very simple reason: phone prices. You could either pay 700 dollars for an iphone, or 200 for an android
Grotesque
I’m not giving them my face id or finger print, fuck them. If this change sticks my next device will be an iPhone.
I hate being that guy, but at this point we’re just jumping from a frying pan to another.
Pretty much, that’s just where we are at. What made Android preferable to me was the freedom it offered and Android vendors kept chipping away at that for years. With this change implemented Android will be nothing more than cheap iOS, by then you may as well raise money to get the real thing or cheap out harder by buying a feature phone if doing so is an option.
I’m using a Nokia 105 as my work phone, but I’m contractually required only to be reachable by phone.
IMO, the bandaid solution is a degoogled phone, be it Graphene, e/os or whatever, but we need at least a third player.
So you’ll move to an even more locked down OS? Out of the pan, into the fire?
How much more locked down will iOS even be in comparison at this rate though? iOS may not let you do whatever you want, but neither does modern Android. As time went on vendors restricted the system further and further.
Using a custom rom now is basically impossible, Google now releases AOSP source code only as snapshots and no longer accepts outside contribution, and now they almost fully killed sideloading and only made this concession after near universal backlash from online spaces. Do you really trust Google won’t try to pull this kind of move again?
Android only becomes more closed as time goes on, at this rate it’ll be little more than a budget iPhone anyway. At least with Apple you get longer software support and a fancy SoC. A community maintained Android hardfork or a Linux phone would be the ideal options here. But the former doesn’t exist, and no smartphone I can get my hands on runs the latter. So iOS it is, or a feature phone.
Using a custom rom now is basically impossible
Why do you say this?
- Sent from LineageOS
So don’t? Device PIN is explicitly an option.
or device pin
It doesn’t sound like you would have to.
This is all pointless because the scammers will just have you download their apps from the play store anyways, its not like anyone is maintaining that cesspool.
Coming from someone who just reported multiple ads on Facebook that featured what I’d argue was CSAM, yeah, I agree.
So much for their “don’t be evil” policy
didnt they drop it like decade ago?
Yeah, about the same time we started cutting Google out of our day to day. Every time we hear about Google it’s just getting more and more evil/greedy in one way or another
Start moving to LineageOS or GrapheneOS now. Plan your next phone purchase on a model supporting one of these. eBay a used phone if you have to. Get out.
Do they have their own app stores? How does that work? Already switched my PC to Linux. Maybe I’ll look into that.
You can use the Google Play app store if you want; or you can use alternate app stores like F-Droid, Aptiode, Accressent, or probably some other thing I’ve never heard of.
GrapheneOS has basic apps, but you can get lot of alternative apps to Google on F-Droid
It’s a weird Frankenstein mix with GrapheneOS. They have a Google compatibility layer, which allows some Google Store apps to run, but at the cost of providing tracking and telemetry to Google. There are other FOSS app stores as well.
You’re advised to use containers and containerize Google, Meta, and other privacy violating social media apps, which will feed data back but limit what data the apps can send. Also, you can shut down the containers when not in use, which ends all telemetry from those apps.
But you do have to manage this. Privacy comes at the cost of complexity and effort. Is that worth it to you? It is for me.
LineageOS doesn’t have any store preinstalled, but you can install them yourself from the internet. F-Droid offers only open source apps, and Aurora Store is alternative front end to Google Play, which can download any app from GP.
google can eat shit.
the moment I see a viable linux phone, I’m out.
But they did this knowing that at this point there is not a viable alternative. It’s both monopoly, vendor lock, eee and enshittification all at once…
by 2027 there will be a linux phone. consumers won’t put up with this shit and vendors aren’t so blind to see an opportunity.
2127…
2227…
2327…
2427…
Surely 2527 will be the year of the Linux phone…
There was already a Linux phone and even a Firefox phone, but with no wide app support it’s going to be a failure, just like it happened with Windows Phone.
And I’m saying this as a person who would love for a true Linux phone alternative to succeed.
All a Linux phone needs to succeed is an app store and to be able to securely process payments without google and then developers and companies are interested.
How will this affect MDM-solutions that installs apps from outside the GMS world
IIRC, Google stated that it won’t affect MDM.
Is there some sort of in between of GMS and Non-GMS that this could possibly apply to?
It would really be about MDM.
With most MDM solutions there’s an owner app that actually owns the device and can install apps directly.
How familiar with this are you? I’m pretty sure most MDMs have to play nice with the rules set by GMS. There are MDMs made by the OEMs of some HW brands, and they have the system signature in their MDM agent for sideloading, but even then if they’re GMS compatible and not AOSP there are limitations to what they can control from GMS’s influence.
They’re really working hard at distancing themselves from that “Don’t be evil” motto.
they did that years ago
they stopped as soon as they stopped blocking eleciton denial content YT. they were preparing to support trump with propaganda 1-2 years before his election.
Welp my next phone will be a used phone up to 2024 manufacturing. My current phone is already a used one, although one of 2018 manufacturing.
I’m gonna stick to pre-owned devices with alternate ROMs like Lineage, Cyanogen, RR, Havoc, Bliss, cr, Viper, AOSP, KP, ISP, etc. or any of the other hundred brews. I don’t anticipate getting a phone that runs android and is not able to be modified EVER. Eventually if the time comes that the tech changed so vastly that they’re not usable anymore (like 3G now) by then hopefully there will be full Linux phones or some other varieties. Maybe many.
But the thing is the mainstream masses just don’t give a shit. Their rights and liberties have been getting chewed away at for decades and they just can’t seem to care. As long as they are entertained enough and the culture like ours - ie geek subculture / hacking community continues to be mocked and vilified, they’re certainly not gonna listen to us.
But what’s new about that? Nada.
We are forever going to remain a fringe community and I just accept that. When a family member has Alexa devices and I show them all the analytics and tests and records from all the various sources that provide empirical evidence of constant surveillance and spying and uploading of eavesdropped audio and the folks just go eh oh well eh yeah but ah useful eh I have nothing to hide ehhh urrrgh … I start to see them with sunken eye sockets and protruding brow ridges. They are the fools and the suckers and the sheep. They’re the ones who will line up to be implanted with a chip, they’re the ones who will pay to have their brains mapped and catalogued. You can’t cure fucking stupid. Meanwhile people like us will remain the fringe “undesirables” as long as our hearts beat.
The solution is GrapheneOS. You can install it on Google Pixels today, and Motorola is going to release some devices with official support for it in 2027.
That’s not the single solution. You can put dozens of ROMs on dozens of other devices. I buy older devices at cheap prices and put custom ROMs on them and then sell them. It’s fairly lucrative; more so as time goes on. Plenty of people want this kind of privacy but don’t have the skills or confidence to modify their devices. Motorola and Samsung the most by far, but also LG and various others occasionally.
Other ROMs are usually very bad at security with many being late to secuity updates, not supporting bootloader relocking, and not using the secure element. I would not trust them in the hands of someone who isn’t tech savvy or is at high risk of hackers.
Yeah the real issue is ease of access and simplicity. GrapheneOS is appealing to me, but 1. I don’t want to buy a google pixel just to get it and 2. I don’t have the confidence to replace the OS, no matter how easy the guide says it is. If I had someone in person to help me I’d maybe consider it, but I’m just so worried I’d mess it up and brick the phone
I was planning to get an android phone in a few months since I unfortunately still have my old iPhone, but with this GrapheneOS Motorola phone coming out in 2027 I might see if I can make this phone last till that comes out if android is gonna be locked down too
I buy slightly older phone in Lots. I clean them, test them and then I change them over to a ROM that runs nicely. Then I sell them at a modest markup. I’ve sold about like twenty so far in the past year and I have about forty waiting to be finished. Due to chronic illnesses I have, I often have weeks during which I can’t make any progress.
I know there are plenty of enthusiasts who would like to run a smoother OS that doesn’t spy on them or waste sys resources on bloatware, but oftentimes those people are afraid to do their own hack for concern they’ll mess up. That’s basically my customer base and I’ve been very happy to help get these devices to folks who want this experience.
I like crDroid, ResurrectionRemix, BlissOS, Lineage, Havoc, /e/, Iodé, and like a dozen others such as generic AOSP based etc. There are like a hundred. I just discovered SuperiorOS I put onto a Moto X4. Superior is quite an apropos name, it’s really sweet!
Samsung and Motorola are a smooth process (provided not restricted due to carrier or because it’s a prepay). Some LG are very good as well, but too many are not accommodating and also lots of them crap out. I do like my G4. I have about thirty devices I use somewhat regularly for this or that.
There are plenty brands, though, that I’ve not yet tried out.
