Not committing self harm isn’t equivalent to Moving Mountains etc. This is the whole problem with that standpoint. Yes the genocides that the United States Russia and China are committing are inexcusable. They were also not actually on the ballot. There was no one who stood a chance of getting elected that was going to make those better. But there was one that vowed to make things worse. And they won. Like many of us said they would. There is no single one group that deserves credit for that victory. But the margin of votes was with in single digit percentage. It wasn’t moving a mountain.
I’m not here to accuse you of being happy with the outcome. But can you admit that you might have been taken advantage of. That your sincere Ernest desire to see things fixed may have been manipulated and taken advantage of to your own detriment and the determent of people you care about. Because I can tell you 100% that fascists, leninists, and other groups absolutely we’re stirring the pot. Not caring about who got hurt.
I have no problem with anyone talking to them and trying to de program any of those groups. What I do have a problem with, are people repeating propaganda and being manipulated by these groups to get everyone hurt. We are here.
As an anarchist I wish to see all national parties disbanded and abolished. Democrat, republican, green, libertarian, vanguard. And you’re not wrong that a lot of this has been going on since and including FDR. He should have actually tried and hung everyone found guilty of being involved with the business plot. Instead of making backroom deals to get Social Security Etc passed. Something which the people he spared set about immediately after it’s passage, gutting it.
The sad thing is, that Democrats deny their role in the failure, just as many of the so-called people on the left who spent so much time attacking them. But as they say success has many fathers, while failure is a bastard.
You’re only worried about the immediate future. Which, yes, is bad. But many refusing to vote for the DNC are doing so because they’re complicit in enabling this bullshit political atmosphere where people are so tired of bullshit politicians who do shit like break a record to “stand up to trump” and then vote to confirm his appointee. So they either give up on voting altogether or are willing to vote for a literal dictator and the DNC’s response is to fight harder against progressives than it does trump. Then in response to losing runs someone whose message is “nothing will fundamentally change.”
So, yeah, if people had completely abandoned the DNC like they should have, maybe we wouldn’t have ever seen it get this bad. But they’re happy with it this bad. They get to pretend they care and keep making money. So yeah, there are plenty of people who refuse to vote for them because they’re happily helping to destroy democracy. (Including suing to remove 3rd parties from ballots, yay!)
Are you implying that the kidnappings torture and persecution are only short-term? Do you not understand that we will have to win back our basic rights at this point. Not just for our immigrant friends and family, but all minorities? That seems a really obtuse and uninformed viewpoint. Which I’m hoping it’s just a misunderstanding on my part. And that that’s not your actual stance. This shit is serious and not short-term. We will be suffering this for Generations.
I mean unless you have some Surefire non-vanguardist radical action in your pocket or something.
Literally just said I know it’s bad. Not implying it isn’t. I’m saying the DNC has been actively working towards this even being possible for years. Because they only need to run hitler -$50. And they’re happy with that. They would rather lose to Trump than lose any money. And that’s why people stop voting. And that’s why Trump is fucking even possible.
I’m just fucking tired of people defending the DNC. They’re just as big of a part of the problem as republicans.
The voters are as much to blame as the dnc. Stop trying to push all the blame on to them. So which is it and be clear. Am i only concerned about short-term shit. Or is this shit meaningful and you’re just flip-flopping wildly. Twisting in the wind trying to pin everything on Democrats and nothing on you or anyone else like you.
I can say you’re only concerned with short term and willing to lose the long term, while also saying I understand the short term is fucking terrible and it suck’s but it’s only going to get worse if people keep supporting the parties that got us here and are happy to be here. Because people have been saying this shit for like 50 years… and here we are, at it being worse.
The DNC’s literal job is to motivate and energize voters. Blaming the voters and not the DNC is like yelling at a Taco Bell employee about them removing potato’s from the menu as if the fucking cashier has any say what corporate does.
The DNC shouldn’t exist. Democrats job is to legislate. Not excite or energize anyone. Politics isn’t supposed to be life or death or exciting. It’s supposed to be banal and boring. The more boring the better.
And it’s freaking hilarious to watch you still flailing. You already admitted you voted for Harris just as I and many other people like myself. Yet you defend the sensationalist one-sided coverage and people pushing it against Harris.
If you’ve got this long-term plan let’s hear it. If I was a betting man my money would be on you don’t have anything other than the boiler plate.
if everyone just magically voted for my candidate things would magically be better.
And look I’ll even go first. My long-term plan is to end the relevance of national parties. To work with them only as long as we must to keep Republicans and outright fascists from office, due to current realities. While getting people elected to change those realities. They are not our friends but the unfortunate truth is we need each other. Further we need to work on not being so gullible as to amplify the propaganda of our enemies. Regardless of who they are. Your turn. Got anything besides accelerationism?
I assume you’re confusing me with someone else? I did not say I voted for Harris.
People who want to get elected’s job is to get people to want to vote for them. A national party then is supposed to… be a party people want to vote for.
Anyways, the long term plan is mostly, remove money & attack ads from politics, including post political job bullshit. Stop first past the post. Educate people well. Including on the internet and computers (we REALLY need good legislation on it but without people actually understanding it… that’s not easy) Get people to actually care about their own communities, and get involved, including in politics, school boards, etc. (And well, plenty of other things to change, much I have not sat down and formalized a plan for it because there’s not much point in fantasizing a world that’s not trying to destroy itself for profit. Mostly what I can do as a teacher… which also involves a lot of pushing my school to offer things. ) But the DNC is actively against a lot of that. Voting for them will not fix it.
Not committing self harm isn’t equivalent to Moving Mountains etc. This is the whole problem with that standpoint. Yes the genocides that the United States Russia and China are committing are inexcusable. They were also not actually on the ballot. There was no one who stood a chance of getting elected that was going to make those better. But there was one that vowed to make things worse. And they won. Like many of us said they would. There is no single one group that deserves credit for that victory. But the margin of votes was with in single digit percentage. It wasn’t moving a mountain.
I’m not here to accuse you of being happy with the outcome. But can you admit that you might have been taken advantage of. That your sincere Ernest desire to see things fixed may have been manipulated and taken advantage of to your own detriment and the determent of people you care about. Because I can tell you 100% that fascists, leninists, and other groups absolutely we’re stirring the pot. Not caring about who got hurt.
I have no problem with anyone talking to them and trying to de program any of those groups. What I do have a problem with, are people repeating propaganda and being manipulated by these groups to get everyone hurt. We are here.
As an anarchist I wish to see all national parties disbanded and abolished. Democrat, republican, green, libertarian, vanguard. And you’re not wrong that a lot of this has been going on since and including FDR. He should have actually tried and hung everyone found guilty of being involved with the business plot. Instead of making backroom deals to get Social Security Etc passed. Something which the people he spared set about immediately after it’s passage, gutting it.
The sad thing is, that Democrats deny their role in the failure, just as many of the so-called people on the left who spent so much time attacking them. But as they say success has many fathers, while failure is a bastard.
Yes!!!
You’re only worried about the immediate future. Which, yes, is bad. But many refusing to vote for the DNC are doing so because they’re complicit in enabling this bullshit political atmosphere where people are so tired of bullshit politicians who do shit like break a record to “stand up to trump” and then vote to confirm his appointee. So they either give up on voting altogether or are willing to vote for a literal dictator and the DNC’s response is to fight harder against progressives than it does trump. Then in response to losing runs someone whose message is “nothing will fundamentally change.”
So, yeah, if people had completely abandoned the DNC like they should have, maybe we wouldn’t have ever seen it get this bad. But they’re happy with it this bad. They get to pretend they care and keep making money. So yeah, there are plenty of people who refuse to vote for them because they’re happily helping to destroy democracy. (Including suing to remove 3rd parties from ballots, yay!)
Are you implying that the kidnappings torture and persecution are only short-term? Do you not understand that we will have to win back our basic rights at this point. Not just for our immigrant friends and family, but all minorities? That seems a really obtuse and uninformed viewpoint. Which I’m hoping it’s just a misunderstanding on my part. And that that’s not your actual stance. This shit is serious and not short-term. We will be suffering this for Generations.
I mean unless you have some Surefire non-vanguardist radical action in your pocket or something.
Literally just said I know it’s bad. Not implying it isn’t. I’m saying the DNC has been actively working towards this even being possible for years. Because they only need to run hitler -$50. And they’re happy with that. They would rather lose to Trump than lose any money. And that’s why people stop voting. And that’s why Trump is fucking even possible.
I’m just fucking tired of people defending the DNC. They’re just as big of a part of the problem as republicans.
The voters are as much to blame as the dnc. Stop trying to push all the blame on to them. So which is it and be clear. Am i only concerned about short-term shit. Or is this shit meaningful and you’re just flip-flopping wildly. Twisting in the wind trying to pin everything on Democrats and nothing on you or anyone else like you.
I can say you’re only concerned with short term and willing to lose the long term, while also saying I understand the short term is fucking terrible and it suck’s but it’s only going to get worse if people keep supporting the parties that got us here and are happy to be here. Because people have been saying this shit for like 50 years… and here we are, at it being worse.
The DNC’s literal job is to motivate and energize voters. Blaming the voters and not the DNC is like yelling at a Taco Bell employee about them removing potato’s from the menu as if the fucking cashier has any say what corporate does.
The DNC shouldn’t exist. Democrats job is to legislate. Not excite or energize anyone. Politics isn’t supposed to be life or death or exciting. It’s supposed to be banal and boring. The more boring the better.
And it’s freaking hilarious to watch you still flailing. You already admitted you voted for Harris just as I and many other people like myself. Yet you defend the sensationalist one-sided coverage and people pushing it against Harris.
If you’ve got this long-term plan let’s hear it. If I was a betting man my money would be on you don’t have anything other than the boiler plate.
And look I’ll even go first. My long-term plan is to end the relevance of national parties. To work with them only as long as we must to keep Republicans and outright fascists from office, due to current realities. While getting people elected to change those realities. They are not our friends but the unfortunate truth is we need each other. Further we need to work on not being so gullible as to amplify the propaganda of our enemies. Regardless of who they are. Your turn. Got anything besides accelerationism?
I assume you’re confusing me with someone else? I did not say I voted for Harris.
People who want to get elected’s job is to get people to want to vote for them. A national party then is supposed to… be a party people want to vote for.
Anyways, the long term plan is mostly, remove money & attack ads from politics, including post political job bullshit. Stop first past the post. Educate people well. Including on the internet and computers (we REALLY need good legislation on it but without people actually understanding it… that’s not easy) Get people to actually care about their own communities, and get involved, including in politics, school boards, etc. (And well, plenty of other things to change, much I have not sat down and formalized a plan for it because there’s not much point in fantasizing a world that’s not trying to destroy itself for profit. Mostly what I can do as a teacher… which also involves a lot of pushing my school to offer things. ) But the DNC is actively against a lot of that. Voting for them will not fix it.