Taxes and levies to incentivise behavior don’t work. People will eat shit salads before they give up their F150s. We can’t just let people pay to avoid responsibility.
Bullshit. Costs absolutely influence shopping behavior. If you drive it out of an affordable range while providing viable, more environmentally friendly, alternatives. People will be forced to change
Have you ever considered taxes to pay for collective goods and services, making peoples lives easier, them smarter, building trust in the idea that government can work and giving the government more teeth?
People will eat shit salads before they give up their F150s. We can’t just let people pay to avoid responsibility.
The F150 people were sold on the ridiculous trucks by the automotive industry. Theyre also much smaller as a part of the problem.
The people who make decisions we all feel forced to live with are the ones whose businesses choose the path of least resistance
How do you change that though? By beating down the people who have the least damage per person? Or by beating down the companies that push these products, and more importantly the ownership class that owns them and casually use private jets to chauffeur their poodles around?
You cannot do one or the other to stop climate change. You have to do both. Again, cars are one of the single largest polluters in the world, and especially in the usa. The working class will need to make changes in their life styles as well. The problem is not solveable just by having companies change, consumers also need to be willing to accept changes in purchasing habits
Consumers are not babies. Most are not children. They can take full responsibility for their own choices and failure to research when it’s available. There is a reasonable extent that can be forgiven from lack of information. But most is still their fault. See people drinking bottles water when they have perfect access to safe drinking water. See people driving to work when they’re easily within public transit areas. See people buying slave labor made trinkets off temu, shein, amazon, AliExpress, and many more, or buying constant new shitly made polyester clothes because “fashion”.
Society is created by those who participate. Hand waving “it’s a society problem” denies the individual responsibility of everyone to guide society.
All the information is easily accessible and clear to everyone. They are making a conscious decision to pollute more for their own convenience. This is not saying companies are not also responsible for massive amounts of waste. Do not take it like that. But people need to also understand lifestyles cannot stay the same and still fight climate change. People need to give up their trinkets, fast fashion, cars, etc, if they want to actually fight climate change and pollution
Consumers are not babies. Most are not children. They can take full responsibility for their own choices and failure to research when it’s available.
This is an attitude that seeks to attribute blame rather than practically solve the problem.
This is evidenced by you continuing to say:
There is a reasonable extent that can be forgiven from lack of information.
Which only deals with this from thinking about this as a “who do I blame” rather than a “How can society solve this problem”.
We’ve seen that consumers for instance, don’t choose excess packaging, companies do.
In that same way, with things like the CAFE standards, Chicken tax and other ways that trucks are incentivised not to mention propagandized, its easy to see how this consumer “switch in preference” was manufactured, in the same way that the consumer switch to eating 4 times the amount of cheese within a few decades was a manufactured choice by teams of lobbyists.
We could all simply choose to consumer less animal product, be healthier and leave the environment in a much better position, but yet schools are still forced to feed kids milk with every meal due to lobbying.
Basically always, the root cause lies somewhere with some lobbyist group pushing their interests over that of the consumer.
You can handwave that away and choose to focus on personal choice, but to do that is to ignore the fact that for every issue you care about a whole lot, many people have issues they care about more, even if you’re just talking about fellow climate appreciating folks. What I’m saying is people can’t put all of their energy into every issue all at once. No human can. They’d burn out and be unable to move. That’s why these things matter and can only really be solved at the policy level.
See people driving to work when they’re easily within public transit areas.
You ever stop to think of the long history of car companies actively and successfully lobbying to ruin public transits image and efficiency in the US?
See people buying slave labor made trinkets off temu, shein, amazon, AliExpress, and many more, or buying constant new shitly made polyester clothes because “fashion”.
I guarantee you there are areas of life you are blind to as well, where someone equally as idealistic to you and equally looking for someone to blame rather than solving the problem, is screaming at the top of their lungs angry you don’t do something about it thinking the same as you “the information is all there!!!”
All the information is easily accessible and clear to everyone. They are making a conscious decision to pollute more for their own convenience. This is not saying companies are not also responsible for massive amounts of waste. Do not take it like that. But people need to also understand lifestyles cannot stay the same and still fight climate change. People need to give up their trinkets, fast fashion, cars, etc, if they want to actually fight climate change and pollution
Yada yada yada, but they won’t, and until you get the reasons why they won’t, and how humans have finite focus, and do burnout, or become apathetic, often due to literal people whose jobs it is to get them to, you won’t be trying to solve the problem, but instead you’ll be trying to pin the blame to the least powerful people in the scenario.
This is an attitude that seeks to attribute blame rather than practically solve the problem.
Attribute responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions, and change them.
You can handwave that away and choose to focus on personal choice
I’m not. I mention it in response to people’s attempts to claim it’s never their fault. It’s always someone else’s fault. That there’s nothing they can do, it’s always everyone else.
We could all simply choose to consumer less animal product, be healthier and leave the environment in a much better position, but yet schools are still forced to feed kids milk with every meal due to lobbying.
And society would be better off for that change anyways.
You ever stop to think of the long history of car companies actively and successfully lobbying to ruin public transits image and efficiency in the US?
People who are in areas with public transit and refuse to use it because it’s a minor inconvenience are specifically who I’m talking about that with. And yes, people’s votes helped cause that change.
What I’m saying is people can’t put all of their energy into every issue all at once. No human can
They don’t need to. They can make multiple small choices and lifestyle changes to great benefit. A literal world ending threat should be the most important issue.
I guarantee you there are areas of life you are blind to as well
I’m sure there are. I know there are. Every year I strive to improve. To consume less. To eat less meat. To bike and rid myself of the car I drove for far too long. Improvement takes time. It’s not a one second thing, it takes decades of effort. But it makes a difference, one little step, one person at a time, makes a difference. However, I can be sure I’m actually trying.
you won’t be trying to solve the problem, but instead you’ll be trying to pin the blame to the least powerful people in the scenario.
No rain drop thinks it caused the flood. Every, single, bit matters. A response needs to come from all sides. From the top down, regulating companies to use electric, tax heavily on plastic waste. From the bottom up, encouraging people to take public transit and bike, partly through public awareness campaigns and partly through increased bike and train infrastructure. You can’t solve it by only focusing on companies. You HAVE to get the consumers to be willing to change their habits as well. People need to be aware that they DO have an impact, and their individual changes will make a difference.
A lot of people’s apathy is driven by the false perception that they cannot make a difference with their own power. That their vote doesn’t matter. These false perceptions are what need to be changes so that society can move forward, and push the companies, through laws, punishments, and boycotts, into being environmentally sound.
Taxes and levies to incentivise behavior don’t work. People will eat shit salads before they give up their F150s. We can’t just let people pay to avoid responsibility.
Bullshit. Costs absolutely influence shopping behavior. If you drive it out of an affordable range while providing viable, more environmentally friendly, alternatives. People will be forced to change
Have you ever considered taxes to pay for collective goods and services, making peoples lives easier, them smarter, building trust in the idea that government can work and giving the government more teeth?
The F150 people were sold on the ridiculous trucks by the automotive industry. Theyre also much smaller as a part of the problem.
The people who make decisions we all feel forced to live with are the ones whose businesses choose the path of least resistance
F150s are a significant part of the entire emissions of the united states. Cars in general are one of the largest single categories.
How do you change that though? By beating down the people who have the least damage per person? Or by beating down the companies that push these products, and more importantly the ownership class that owns them and casually use private jets to chauffeur their poodles around?
You cannot do one or the other to stop climate change. You have to do both. Again, cars are one of the single largest polluters in the world, and especially in the usa. The working class will need to make changes in their life styles as well. The problem is not solveable just by having companies change, consumers also need to be willing to accept changes in purchasing habits
I feel you misunderstand my point.
I’m saying consumers are way less responsible for their purchasing decisions than many people think.
Car centricity is a societal problem. The big trucks are a car company propoganda problem.
Consumers are not babies. Most are not children. They can take full responsibility for their own choices and failure to research when it’s available. There is a reasonable extent that can be forgiven from lack of information. But most is still their fault. See people drinking bottles water when they have perfect access to safe drinking water. See people driving to work when they’re easily within public transit areas. See people buying slave labor made trinkets off temu, shein, amazon, AliExpress, and many more, or buying constant new shitly made polyester clothes because “fashion”.
Society is created by those who participate. Hand waving “it’s a society problem” denies the individual responsibility of everyone to guide society.
All the information is easily accessible and clear to everyone. They are making a conscious decision to pollute more for their own convenience. This is not saying companies are not also responsible for massive amounts of waste. Do not take it like that. But people need to also understand lifestyles cannot stay the same and still fight climate change. People need to give up their trinkets, fast fashion, cars, etc, if they want to actually fight climate change and pollution
This is an attitude that seeks to attribute blame rather than practically solve the problem.
This is evidenced by you continuing to say:
Which only deals with this from thinking about this as a “who do I blame” rather than a “How can society solve this problem”.
We’ve seen that consumers for instance, don’t choose excess packaging, companies do.
In that same way, with things like the CAFE standards, Chicken tax and other ways that trucks are incentivised not to mention propagandized, its easy to see how this consumer “switch in preference” was manufactured, in the same way that the consumer switch to eating 4 times the amount of cheese within a few decades was a manufactured choice by teams of lobbyists.
We could all simply choose to consumer less animal product, be healthier and leave the environment in a much better position, but yet schools are still forced to feed kids milk with every meal due to lobbying.
Basically always, the root cause lies somewhere with some lobbyist group pushing their interests over that of the consumer.
You can handwave that away and choose to focus on personal choice, but to do that is to ignore the fact that for every issue you care about a whole lot, many people have issues they care about more, even if you’re just talking about fellow climate appreciating folks. What I’m saying is people can’t put all of their energy into every issue all at once. No human can. They’d burn out and be unable to move. That’s why these things matter and can only really be solved at the policy level.
You ever stop to think of the long history of car companies actively and successfully lobbying to ruin public transits image and efficiency in the US?
This didn’t just put up over night. People didnt just magically have these conclusions. Great video on this topic by a pretty awesome edutainment channel.
I guarantee you there are areas of life you are blind to as well, where someone equally as idealistic to you and equally looking for someone to blame rather than solving the problem, is screaming at the top of their lungs angry you don’t do something about it thinking the same as you “the information is all there!!!”
Yada yada yada, but they won’t, and until you get the reasons why they won’t, and how humans have finite focus, and do burnout, or become apathetic, often due to literal people whose jobs it is to get them to, you won’t be trying to solve the problem, but instead you’ll be trying to pin the blame to the least powerful people in the scenario.
Attribute responsibility. People need to take responsibility for their own decisions, and change them.
I’m not. I mention it in response to people’s attempts to claim it’s never their fault. It’s always someone else’s fault. That there’s nothing they can do, it’s always everyone else.
And society would be better off for that change anyways.
People who are in areas with public transit and refuse to use it because it’s a minor inconvenience are specifically who I’m talking about that with. And yes, people’s votes helped cause that change.
They don’t need to. They can make multiple small choices and lifestyle changes to great benefit. A literal world ending threat should be the most important issue.
I’m sure there are. I know there are. Every year I strive to improve. To consume less. To eat less meat. To bike and rid myself of the car I drove for far too long. Improvement takes time. It’s not a one second thing, it takes decades of effort. But it makes a difference, one little step, one person at a time, makes a difference. However, I can be sure I’m actually trying.
No rain drop thinks it caused the flood. Every, single, bit matters. A response needs to come from all sides. From the top down, regulating companies to use electric, tax heavily on plastic waste. From the bottom up, encouraging people to take public transit and bike, partly through public awareness campaigns and partly through increased bike and train infrastructure. You can’t solve it by only focusing on companies. You HAVE to get the consumers to be willing to change their habits as well. People need to be aware that they DO have an impact, and their individual changes will make a difference.
A lot of people’s apathy is driven by the false perception that they cannot make a difference with their own power. That their vote doesn’t matter. These false perceptions are what need to be changes so that society can move forward, and push the companies, through laws, punishments, and boycotts, into being environmentally sound.