Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, but removes or otherwise avoids most of the problems with Ubuntu.
It doesn’t come with KDE, but it’s a solid option for those not quite comfortable with Debian or Linux in general (or people who prefer Ubuntu as a base).
You can e.g. mintify your Kununtu by installing Linux Mint packages instead of the original Ubuntu packages (add the corresponding LM repos matching your Ubuntu version and give them a sufficiently higher priority) or, alternatively, install KDE on Linux Mint.
I’ve heard that KDE on Mint can be a bit temperamental. I assume because most of their stuff is focused around GTK instead of QT and adding KDE somehow messes with stuff.
Of course one should avoid using the originally provided GTK software under KDE, as it’s also spamming the app drawer.
It should work the same as for the Ubuntu -> Kununtu transition: Install some KDE Plasma desktop metapackage, logout and login using KDE, then remove the libgtk* packages to uninstall the Mate/Cinnamon desktop and it’s associated applications. One can reinstall the desired packages, e.g. Firefox, Thunderbird, Synaptic, afterwards.
@BlameTheAntifa, I disagree. To test your claim, I ran a search with admin privileges for snap and snapd on my Kubuntu LTS workstation, and there’s no trace of it.
Also, the following is from a query to Gemini Flash 2.5:
Kubuntu’s minimal install, especially in version 24.04 and later, generally does not install any Snap packages and often leaves out the snapd service by default, resulting in a snap-free system. Be cautious, as installing certain common applications like Firefox from the default repositories may still pull in snapd as a dependency.
I think that’s what they were saying: it still uses Ubuntu repositories, which use snap. So to install, e.g. Firefox natively, you need to manually meddle with PPAs, or compile from source. The package manger, arguably the biggest strength of any Linux distro, becomes next to useless unless you want to run snaps
I’ve been daily driving Kubuntu LTS for 3 years now completely snap-free due to --minimal-install, and use Waterfox, a Firefox fork that doesn’t use snapd as far as I can see. snap-free *buntu is alive and well. It doesn’t take much effort.
seriously. now you basically don’t have access to a large number of packages. sure, waterfox is a good alternative to firefox. but say you do want to install firefox (or any other package that canonical distributes only as a snap), what do you do?
I get that it’s possible to run Kubuntu, or even stock Ubuntu, without snap. that’s the beauty of an open OS, you can do whatever you want with it. I just don’t get why you would want to run a distro that is actively pushing a standard on you that you don’t want
snaps are similar to flatpaks, little containers that hold apps that can be sandboxed for security, reproducibility, and convenience. cannonical decided to push their own snaps over flatpak, a widly accepted standard. the big problem with snaps is the store where you get them is proprietary, and they will sneakily install snaps instead of standard packages when you try to install programs you didn’t realize we’re even snaps.
The proprietary store backend really isn’t consequential. Most websites are, and if you have a modern computer, you’ve got proprietary firmware running at ring -3. At best, it’s a distraction from Snap’s real issues.
Snap packages are compressed filesystems, similar to squashfs. When an application is started for the first time, the filesystem has to be decompressed and mounted to the root filesystem, which (depending on the computer) can take a long time. It also litters your mount points with loopback devices.
Snap’s sandboxing only works on systems running Systemd. No Devuan, no Artix, no Alpine; the packages will work, but without sandboxing.
The worst part is Canonical’s desperate attempts to make snaps happen.
Ubuntu ships with a modified apt that first checks if the desired package is available as a snap, and if so, installs snapd and the snap package without asking or even notifying the user. Strike that, it’s even worse. https://feddit.uk/comment/20490326
Canonical has forced other official flavors (Xubuntu, Kubuntu, etc; to note: they’re not maintained by Canonical) to ship their systems without Snap’s direct competitor Flatpak out of the box. https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/02/ubuntu-flavors-no-flatpak
…and I’m sure there’s more that I’m forgetting about.
They haven’t modified apt; they abuse an extra version number that supercedes the major version number of a package. I think it’s meant to be used for new packages that reuse the name of an abandoned project. Canonical publish packages for software like Firefox that depend on snapd and just run snap install firefox instead of actually installing anything. Since they bumped that extra version number, their packages always have a higher precedence than even the officially packaged debs from Mozilla.
What’s even even more fucked up is that the package still installs an executable to /usr/bin/firefox, but it’s just a wrapper script that launches the Snap application… and also replaces your desktop shortcuts, application launcher shortcuts, and favourites with its own Reforged Edition file if you’re running GNOME, Unity, MATE, or KDE Plasma.
Excerpt from /usr/bin/firefox Canonical Edition(TM)
# [...]# GNOME Shell
OLD="firefox.desktop"
NEW="firefox_firefox.desktop"
FAVS=$(gsettings get org.gnome.shell favorite-apps 2> /dev/null)
ifecho"$FAVS" | grep -q "'$OLD'"; then
NEWFAVS=$(echo$FAVS | sed -e "s#'$OLD'#'$NEW'#")
gsettings set org.gnome.shell favorite-apps "$NEWFAVS"fi# MATE
OLD="/usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop"
NEW="/var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/firefox_firefox.desktop"
OBJECTS=$(gsettings get org.mate.panel object-id-list 2> /dev/null)
for object in$OBJECTS; do
object=$(echo$object | cut -d\' -f2)
launcher=$(gsettings get org.mate.panel.object:/org/mate/panel/objects/$object/ launcher-location)
if [ "$launcher" = "'$OLD'" ]; then
gsettings set org.mate.panel.object:/org/mate/panel/objects/$object/ launcher-location "'$NEW'"fidone# [...]# TODO: handle other desktop environmentsexec /snap/bin/firefox "$@"
yup discovered this on my server yesterday. needed something on there so just did sudo apt install blahblahblah and then come to find the little ubuntu fucker installed a snap of it.
I really should have gone with another distro for my server but meh i’m too lazy to fix it now.
Bloated container format that has many issues running software, somehow ignores system settings when it wants to and has a propriatary backend controlled by Canonical. Flatpaks are much better imo.
Kubuntu LTS gang, rise up!
spoiler
--minimal-install; nosnapfuckery.Until you run an apt command and both snapd and snaps get forcibly reinstalled.
Just don’t use Ubuntu. If you need to stay in the Debian ecosystem then just use Debian with KDE.
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, but removes or otherwise avoids most of the problems with Ubuntu.
It doesn’t come with KDE, but it’s a solid option for those not quite comfortable with Debian or Linux in general (or people who prefer Ubuntu as a base).
There’s also LMDE if you want a Debian base.
It doesn’t come with KDE preinstalled
You can e.g. mintify your Kununtu by installing Linux Mint packages instead of the original Ubuntu packages (add the corresponding LM repos matching your Ubuntu version and give them a sufficiently higher priority) or, alternatively, install KDE on Linux Mint.
I’ve heard that KDE on Mint can be a bit temperamental. I assume because most of their stuff is focused around GTK instead of QT and adding KDE somehow messes with stuff.
Of course one should avoid using the originally provided GTK software under KDE, as it’s also spamming the app drawer.
It should work the same as for the Ubuntu -> Kununtu transition: Install some KDE Plasma desktop metapackage, logout and login using KDE, then remove the libgtk* packages to uninstall the Mate/Cinnamon desktop and it’s associated applications. One can reinstall the desired packages, e.g. Firefox, Thunderbird, Synaptic, afterwards.
@BlameTheAntifa, I disagree. To test your claim, I ran a search with admin privileges for
snapandsnapdon my Kubuntu LTS workstation, and there’s no trace of it.Also, the following is from a query to Gemini Flash 2.5:
I think that’s what they were saying: it still uses Ubuntu repositories, which use snap. So to install, e.g. Firefox natively, you need to manually meddle with PPAs, or compile from source. The package manger, arguably the biggest strength of any Linux distro, becomes next to useless unless you want to run snaps
I’ve been daily driving Kubuntu LTS for 3 years now completely
snap-free due to--minimal-install, and use Waterfox, a Firefox fork that doesn’t usesnapdas far as I can see.snap-free *buntu is alive and well. It doesn’t take much effort.but why
seriously. now you basically don’t have access to a large number of packages. sure, waterfox is a good alternative to firefox. but say you do want to install firefox (or any other package that canonical distributes only as a snap), what do you do?
I get that it’s possible to run Kubuntu, or even stock Ubuntu, without snap. that’s the beauty of an open OS, you can do whatever you want with it. I just don’t get why you would want to run a distro that is actively pushing a standard on you that you don’t want
To explicitly piss off the distro purists and cultists.
Jk😅
Really, it’s because sometimes I like to run my experimental DNN applications on bare metal, and many of those use containers have an Ubuntu base.
What’s wrong with snaps? I’m relatively new to Linux and keep hearing people banging on about them.
snaps are similar to flatpaks, little containers that hold apps that can be sandboxed for security, reproducibility, and convenience. cannonical decided to push their own snaps over flatpak, a widly accepted standard. the big problem with snaps is the store where you get them is proprietary, and they will sneakily install snaps instead of standard packages when you try to install programs you didn’t realize we’re even snaps.
…so they’re the flatpaks we have at home? :P
Seriously though. Wow, that royally sucks. Thanks for the info.
That’s not the full picture.
The proprietary store backend really isn’t consequential. Most websites are, and if you have a modern computer, you’ve got proprietary firmware running at ring -3. At best, it’s a distraction from Snap’s real issues.
Snap packages are compressed filesystems, similar to squashfs. When an application is started for the first time, the filesystem has to be decompressed and mounted to the root filesystem, which (depending on the computer) can take a long time. It also litters your mount points with loopback devices.
Snap’s sandboxing only works on systems running Systemd. No Devuan, no Artix, no Alpine; the packages will work, but without sandboxing.
The worst part is Canonical’s desperate attempts to make snaps happen.
Ubuntu ships with a modifiedStrike that, it’s even worse. https://feddit.uk/comment/20490326aptthat first checks if the desired package is available as a snap, and if so, installs snapd and the snap package without asking or even notifying the user.…and I’m sure there’s more that I’m forgetting about.
They haven’t modified
apt; they abuse an extra version number that supercedes the major version number of a package. I think it’s meant to be used for new packages that reuse the name of an abandoned project. Canonical publish packages for software like Firefox that depend on snapd and just runsnap install firefoxinstead of actually installing anything. Since they bumped that extra version number, their packages always have a higher precedence than even the officially packaged debs from Mozilla.Thanks, that’s even more fucked up.
What’s even even more fucked up is that the package still installs an executable to
/usr/bin/firefox, but it’s just a wrapper script that launches the Snap application… and also replaces your desktop shortcuts, application launcher shortcuts, and favourites with its own Reforged Edition file if you’re running GNOME, Unity, MATE, or KDE Plasma.Excerpt from /usr/bin/firefox Canonical Edition(TM)
# [...] # GNOME Shell OLD="firefox.desktop" NEW="firefox_firefox.desktop" FAVS=$(gsettings get org.gnome.shell favorite-apps 2> /dev/null) if echo "$FAVS" | grep -q "'$OLD'"; then NEWFAVS=$(echo $FAVS | sed -e "s#'$OLD'#'$NEW'#") gsettings set org.gnome.shell favorite-apps "$NEWFAVS" fi # MATE OLD="/usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop" NEW="/var/lib/snapd/desktop/applications/firefox_firefox.desktop" OBJECTS=$(gsettings get org.mate.panel object-id-list 2> /dev/null) for object in $OBJECTS; do object=$(echo $object | cut -d\' -f2) launcher=$(gsettings get org.mate.panel.object:/org/mate/panel/objects/$object/ launcher-location) if [ "$launcher" = "'$OLD'" ]; then gsettings set org.mate.panel.object:/org/mate/panel/objects/$object/ launcher-location "'$NEW'" fi done # [...] # TODO: handle other desktop environments exec /snap/bin/firefox "$@"I’d classify that as malware.
Holy shit, that’s fucked up
yup discovered this on my server yesterday. needed something on there so just did sudo apt install blahblahblah and then come to find the little ubuntu fucker installed a snap of it.
I really should have gone with another distro for my server but meh i’m too lazy to fix it now.
I’m not sure the pushing snap over established flatpak thing holds up, snap was in the wild before flatpak was announced.
Bloated container format that has many issues running software, somehow ignores system settings when it wants to and has a propriatary backend controlled by Canonical. Flatpaks are much better imo.