It feel like we’re losing to Google, day by day. They aren’t killing AOSP directly, but they are making it useless step by step.

Now it’s Google Play Services, Play Integrity checks, installation source checks… more and more apps just refuse to run without GMS. Banking apps? Most of them don’t work. And it’s only getting worse. I run vanilla AOSP on my main profile, no Play Services. I keep GMS only in my work profile for the apps that absolutely need it. But now even some regular apps that don’t need any play services won’t work on my main profile anymore. They simply block your from running , like le chat.

Maps is google’s most important app there is no way to run without play services. Sure we can use webview or gmaps wv, but they don’t provide turn-by-turn directions. Earlier maps used to work without play services, but two years ago, an update stopped it from working. Now that old version is out of date and no longer works.

Google is slowly making GMS very important to run. The problem with GMS is they require to run as system app and has to have all the permissions by default.

Hope EU puts pressure to make google allow apps to run independently without GMS or atleast install them as user apps(like graphene os sandboxed play services).

If we keep going on like this, AOSP can only run fdroid apps in the future.

  • ChaosSpectre@lemmy.zip
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    Realistically, change your approach to how you use your phone.

    A majority of apps are not actually apps. They are a web app packaged in an apk so they can get elevated permissions and more data. Dont download apps, instead just install them from your browser as the web app they are. This is far more secure and far less invasive as generally a web app is containerized, at least thats my understanding in regards to firefox.

    Instead of google maps, explore the world of open source navigation apps. Osmand has worked great for me, and tends to provide better info so im not panic merging at the last second. Theres a lot of them out there, and google maps has stagnated for so long that many of them are caught up in features. While its not open source, ive sesn a lot of people praise Magic Earth as well.

    Buy phones on the premise of being allowed to use a custom rom. As much as i dont want a pixel because it is google, graphene os is battle tested and much more secure than stock android. But theres also lineage OS, eOS, and a few others out there.

    If you need google play services, containerize it. I keep all apps i dont want having special permissions on a work profile. Funnily, i also keep my work apps on that profile, so if google wants my works data then they can handle the lawsuit if something bad happens lol.

    I think a lot of people have forgotten that phones are tiny computers. The only real difference is the cell network, but we already have devices that can use those networks that arent phones, so it isnt an exclusive feature to phones. Android can be forked, but also we can emulate android on linux and there are already linux phones out there. If we grow the linux space for phones, then we effectively lose nothing of value while gaining increased freedom. For now, change how you use your phone, and only download apps if you have no other choice.

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    For banking, I use the website instead of the application. I have very few non-open-source applications left on my phone.

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      in my country they won’t let you do that without at least their proprietary 2fa on your phone. and that of course needs play integrity in 90% of cases.

      • /home/pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        I was upset about Duo authenticator when I found out someone made a workaround that lets you export the secrets to a normal totp app. I can only hope you have some project like that for your situation

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    I keep my old smartphone precisely so I can install banking apps and other annoyances.

    Feel free to track the burner phone that stays on the same location, turns on once a week, is got tape on the cameras and never uses the browser.

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      If they really had interest in stopping you they could definitely stop you. That’s the direction they’re heading with all of these apps that are doing the integrity check. It’s just a matter of time that it’ll take for them to do it gradually enough not to make everything backward compatible explode.

      Microg and stuff like that are probably on their way out within the next few generations.

      When postmarket finally manages to reverse engineer the modems and the voice and support something with a half decent camera I’ll readily leave the ecosystem.

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      I thought that was the reason for the cloned app that runs outside the Insular sandbox. I am dumb on the subject and making assumptions though.

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    Run as many open source apps as you can is about the best option. Also, OSMAND does provide turn-by-turn directions.

    What it does not do well is street addresses, so at times you may find that you have to use the GPS coordinates of the place you are going to in order to get directions.

    • rumba@lemmy.zip
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      It’s never had any trouble with street addresses for me. It’s using open street map so if there are addresses that aren’t right you can submit changes.

      Where it has trouble for me is on long trips over great distances. If you ask it to route a 6-hour trip to another state through a couple of metropolitan areas It has a pretty good chance of sending you a non-optimal route.

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        I’ve found that it can get you to businesses fairly well. where I have seen failures is navigating to an individual’s home address. What you can do is you can get the nearby intersection of two roads fairly easily, but the home address is much more difficult.

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    Maps?

    Use OsmAnd and MagicEarth? I’ve been doping it for years now. Works fine.

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    Of the largest android sellers, only samsung requires gplay. Xiaomi, vivo, oppo, realme, honor, are all chinese companies that require non-bundled google play for their domestic (and maybe other countries?) releases. Google can’t alienate these sellers, and if they did, all of these companies would create their own AOSP fork (or just switch to HarmonyOS)

    I recently bought a xiaomi android tablet that doesn’t have google play services luckily.

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        mine is unlocked and rommed. they’re fine in that aspect unless something changed recently?

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      If the goal is too swap one parasite for another, this is a valid strategy BUT

      Custom ROM is the only proper solution, ideally GrapheneOS, if you actually care about security and privacy.

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    It is only slightly on topic, but I’d like to give a hateful shout out to Ticketmaster/Live Nation’s new “mobile only” ticketed events that require you to have an iPhone or fully Google blessed Android phone. They do not allow you to use a QR code or printed ticket anymore, only their app with a constantly changing bare code or Google wallet (unsure of the IOS experience).

    I am going to a concert this weekend and I either have to dig up some old phone that can work with this app or sell my tickets.

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    Hope EU puts pressure to make google allow apps to run independently without GMS or atleast install them as user apps(like graphene os sandboxed play services).

    I doubt they will put any pressure. EU decided to rely on GMS for their upcoming Digital ID app. While they claim they want to switch to open source alternatives of big tech services, they designed their app so that it forces EU citizens to either comply with Google’s ToS, or Apple’s.

    Related discussion: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/issues/18

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        It’ll be awhile. They’ve been in a development state since the launch of the original pinephone in 2020. And even the pinephone is going to be unavailable in two years as pine64 is ceasing sales on it. Not trying to crap on devs. I bought two pinephones (Braveheart & Mobian bundle). Tested multiple distros and excitedly followed their progress for years. I never had a reliable working phone in that four year span. IMO SailfishOS and Post Market OS are the two most usable mobile distros. SailfishOS now requires an ongoing subscription to use which I don’t like.

        https://liliputing.com/pinephone-pro-linux-smartphone-has-been-discontinued-but-the-original-pinephone-is-still-available/

        • madjo@feddit.nl
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          Linux based phones have been in development for more than a decade now. I had a Neo Freerunner from OpenMoko in 2008… it kinda worked, but it was not good enough for a daily driver.

          What we have now is much better, but there’s still some ways to go before I’m able to ditch my non-linuxy smartphone.

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          Sailfish only needs a subscription to get updates, you can use it without a sub.

          I use danctnix on my pinephone, which is basically arch. It does the basics, that’s about it. What’s missing is more convenient apps. Most of the stuff is catered to desktop.

          Of all the OSes I tried, I liked ubports the best, but it was not updated and not all hardware worked iirc, and suffered the same problem of apps. At least arch gets updated constantly.

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      Actively developed sure but Linux phones are a solution looking for a problem. Who wants to run scaled down desktop apps on their phone and who wants a terminal on a phone either? I may be a Linux enthusiast but I want a phone that simply works.

      • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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        the problem is that google is capable of slurping all of your data and your phone becomes an enhanced avenue for access; the linux phones are the solution to this.

        i’m convinced that the “it just works” mantra is the reason why google or apple or microsoft is able to do this sort of asshattery and i can understand why people would want something that simply works.

        however, the trade off for this mantra is that you’re giving yourself over to a corporation that not only doesn’ t have your best interest at heart but has proven will happily sell your control for a penny.

        i can also understand why someone wouldn’t think that any of this matters and; if you’re lucky; it won’t matter all, but for the rest of us unlucky sob’s (and the people who don’t want to put their faith in luck), linux phones matter.

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            That’s the point of the original post though. Google is starting to make development of these custom ROMs more difficult. If Google ever decided to lock down the bootloader for new Pixels, Graphene would be in a world of hurt. I also use GrapheneOS and love it, but who knows if it will be alive two or three years from now.

            • kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              My point is its absolutely absurd to yell that AOSP is dead because GOOGLE SPECIFIC files such as device trees and firmware files (that maybe one or two other oems regularly distribute) and just jump ship to a platform arguably over a decade behind. Are there concerns? Yes, but those concerns are absolutely nowhere near close to justify the absolute mess the mobile linux space is in. It would be like if amazon packages starting arriving a day late and we all switched to aliexpress.

          • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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            i was going to do this too, but none of my functioning androids are supported and i expect google to take another step in disabling alternatives.

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            I also run GrapheneOS, but I’d love to have a decent true Linux alternative that wasn’t tied to Pixel phones. Maybe I can even get my headphone jack back.

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        A Linux phone doesn’t need to be, and definitely shouldn’t be, a scaled down desktop. There would obviously need to be some purpose built phone apps made, but I am pretty sure the existing Linux phones already do these, they aren’t really breaking new ground here. The whole point would be to have a workable modern phone that isn’t under Google or Apple’s greedy untrustworthy thumbs.

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            I have used postmarketOS, and I thought the interface (Plasma Mobile) was OK, but could use some improvements. How long ago did you use it?

            Edit: Now that I think about it, I think the last time I tried the Pinephone it was using Manjaro, not postmarketOS. I have used that before though, but you may want to give it another try as it is vastly improved IMO. That being said, the Pinephone itself still kinda sucks from a hardware perspective.

      • pirat@lemmy.world
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        Who wants to run scaled down desktop apps on their phone

        I believe the UI of most apps could be made to work well with phone display sizes and resolutions.

        and who wants a terminal on a phone either?

        Well, I do! It’s great when you want to connect, do or automate something there isn’t an app for. For now I sometimes run Termux on Android. Among smartphone users in general I’m probably an edge case, but among Linux users, I must say, using a terminal on the phone doesn’t seem that crazy to me.

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          It doesn’t matter if they look ok (they still look out of place and feel wrong), the fact is they’re built with keyboards in mind. Hell even on phosh you’ll see keyboard shortcut indicators.

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            What stops anyone from making new GUIs, maybe even a new framework for doing that, optimised for touchscreens rather than keyboard and mouse?

            Maybe I’m just unknowledgeable, but to me that idea doesn’t sound very far-fetched.

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              Because people keep defending the keyboard and mouse based mobile interfaces and as long as people and devs say its ok there will be no incentive to make proper mobile interfaces.

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                A single app can have separate interfaces for mobile and desktop. Mobile/Touch interfaces are uncommon right now because linux on mobile isn’t ready, and it is extra work to make a separate GUI.

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        They’re actively trying to solve:

        • e-waste and making devices last longer (contributing upstream)
        • escaping data harvesting and surveillance
        • offer an alternative to the mobile duopoly

        I’m baffled that they even bother, given how much people complain about it not being good enough. But I’m glad they do, and I think it’s awesome.

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          Because they’ve yet to implement basic security features android had a decade ago and the interfaces are clunky, also once again who thought putting desktop apps on Mobile is a good idea?

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            They’re not a multi-billion dollar company. If you don’t like it, then don’t use it. That’s your choice.

            But please stop talking nonsense about them not addressing real problems. Because they are. And they deserve credit for that. Not whining about the imperfections of a work in progress.

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              You dont have to be a multi billion dollar company to implement security features that exist in aosp, open source features based on freely available software that simply isnt implemented.

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                No, but it is going to take a considerable amount of time as they don’t have the manpower and resources of a multi billion dollar company.

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                  GraphineOS didn’t start over from scratch for no reason nor did LineageOS so they dont need billions of dollars in funding, if you want to do everything youself then yeah its gonna cost that much.

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    EU won’t be too friendly either given the nature of their recent identification app. You should still write to your legislators, but they’re a mostly tech-illiterate bunch, so expect it to be a low ROI activity.

    Really do consider donating to projects like GrapheneOS. The GrapheneOS team are a very passionate and clever group, and I’d like to think that they can at least give us something to work with, even if Google completely cuts the cord. Hopefully they can also secure an additional revenue stream once they release their own phone.

    If it really does all fall through and there’s no deGoogled way to run Android apps, I’ll keep a separate phone, preferably with a removable battery, with regular Android just to host the proprietary apps. Treat it as a work phone, i.e. power off when not needed, don’t connect to my main home network, don’t do anything that doesn’t need to be done on it. Proprietary apps only make up a small fraction of my mobile workflow, so everything else stays on another phone that respects my privacy.

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      I am thinking a tablet with Linux and a hotspot rather than phone number. Maybe supplement with a dumb phone in a Faraday bag for your phone, Iike on Swisscows.

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      they’re a mostly tech-illiterate bunch

      Y’all keep saying this… These people are not stupid, they are corrupt. Start calling spade a spade. You are giving them something to hide behind jfc.