The disparity is actually skyrocketing moreso now, and steadily has been for the last century. The New Deal, as a response to the USSR, did manage to temporarily lower inequality, but corporations weren’t nearly as monopolized. The status we are in today took a long time, and for hundreds of years, disparity was actually much lower than England and other countries that had started capitalism in earnest. The semi-yeoman worker in the US had bargaining power and land, which slowed down tge process of disparity.
None of this is in defense of settler-colonialism. I bring it up because it points to the class character of the US, and helps explain why it’s so far-right and reactionary, as well as why leftist radicalization is increasing rapidly.
Yet again, I agree! But wouldn’t you also agree that the system always had this in-built inequality? What I meant to say was that, while it was less immediately obvious at the start, the subsequent pooling and acceleration of said pooling were always going to happen within this system.
And that’s why I suspect that this was the plan all along, because it has been visible from the start, it didn’t require a retrospective if one was paying enough attention. And those who did got very, very rich.
But even if everyone would have been paying attention*, there would be no room for equality, otherwise the entire pyramid would collapse, taking everyone’s “more than” with it.
Yes, I absolutely agree that the disparity we see today is a direct result of the former social relations. The agrarian slave-driven economy in the south was certainly going to result in conflict with the industrial economy based on wage labor in the north, especially as the north needed new wage laborers to expand industrially. Historical progression is a process of endless spirals, tendencies and trajectories accumulate over time until a quantitative buildup results in a qualitative change.
However, I don’t see it as something that was intentionally planned. Capital doesn’t think that way. Capitalist production is an ever-expanding circuit that must constantly be repeated, anything going against that system of voracious profit gets dashed. Long-term planning is characteristic of socialism, not capitalism, nor the semi-yeoman style of settler-colonial capitalism or slave driven agrarian economy.
This is important, because understanding how we got here today can tell us where we are headed. The historic task of the US proletariat in the age of dying imperialism is to topple the capitalist state and replace it with a socialist state, focusing on decolonization and anti-imperialism. The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. This is only increasingly possible because the US working class is becoming increasingly proletarianized due to monopolist capture of the land, and imperialism is weakening to the point where we cannot be bribed as much by its spoils.
We aren’t here because of some 5-D chess from the old bourgeoisie, nor did the settlers have ignorance of the system. The US settler class was bribed using the spoils of genocide, and its only increasingly true now that there isn’t really a semi-yeoman class. The immense brutality of settler-colonialism can’t keep the US afloat anymore, nor can imperialism.
I’m just trying to help provide a Marxist perspective, as it genuinely gives us a chance of completing the US proletariat’s historic duty. I’m a Marxist-Leninist.
Maybe you’re right, maybe I’m just so completely lacking any faith in greedy humans that I now suspect everything was a ploy. I dunno, maybe it’s one of the pitfalls of hindsight, that it can easily seem to have intentionality when the string of failures is so smooth and perfect. I mean, at the end of the day, Capitalism is, to my mind, uniquely insidious as a system.
Either way, I really don’t want you to think I was disagreeing with you about anything else, whether planned or not, it is most certainly worth learning everything we can from its evolution. As you’ve said, we need to have the future in mind, because this thing’ll be around for at least a bit longer…
Sincerely thank you for the theory! I’m not as versed in these aspects for now, so I don’t know where I’d land on the political/philosophical spectrum exactly. All I know is that I sincerely want everyone to have a truly fair chance at life without having to worry about being persecuted for who they are, without having to be relatively rich to afford basic healthcare (I’m including the various hormone therapies here because it’s well past time we grew the fuck up and stopped obsessing about other people’s genitals, as… uuh… someone smarter than me put it) and without the fear that they may starve or become homeless, ffs… And I also know that what we’ve been doing so far obviously ain’t it…
Modes of production are historical phenomena, guided by technological advancements. Capitalism wasn’t a choice, but a result of growing industrial bourgeois production resolving its contradiction with feudal agrarian production. The steam engine is what accelerated this process. Zooming out, capital is the real master of capitalists, capitalists are merely the high priests of capital best guessing at what it wants, but ultimately are slaves to the profit motive and how to best extract it.
And no worries! One thing that’s helpful, is that the centralization of capitalism over time is exactly what creates a large class capable of collectively planning and running production in the interests of all. The profit motive destroys the profit motive. I try to maintain revolutionary optimism, doomerism is more of a product of the capitalist class trying to remove revolutionary fervor.
Based on your final paragraph, you’d do well with reading leftist theory! I already said I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I actually made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list if you want to spend some time on theory, but you can explore whatever leftist tendencies you want to. The two biggest umbrellas are anarchism and Marxism, the former being about decentralization and horizontalism, the latter being about centralization and collectivization (to massively oversimplify), and the biggest tendency in Marxism is Marxism-Leninism. If you want to learn more about what makes these distinct, feel free to ask, I used to be an anarchist myself.
Also, if you can, join an org! If you’re US-based, I recommend something like The Party for Socialism and Liberation. There are probably other orgs local to you, though, so do some shopping around. Getting organized is the only way out of this mess, and into the new. A better world is possible!
Most definitely have a lot of Leftist reading to do! If nothing else, I at least know I’m well Left of Center:))
Now that I’ve mulled it over some more, I think it feels very intentional to me because I do see a lot of similarities between it and Feudalism, yes! It’s like Capitalism is comprised of multiple smaller monarchies, referring to Corporations and any organisation/person with a large amount of capital at their disposal, and thus influence. But, yeah, we’re talking orders of magitude of complexity above traditional feudalism, so it would stand to reason that it’s most likely just a mathematical whirlpool of sorts. I do agree that capital is the main point of power in Capitalism and that everything else has formed around it.
Which, on a personal side note, is so sad when looking at the big picture! It means that the people in power aren’t actually driven by anything concretely Human™, so to speak, they’ve ceeded full control of themselves and their lives over to the accumulation of something entirely fictitious… It’d be lamentable if it wasn’t so damned dangerous…
Thank you so much for the reading list! It’s so nice to have a quasi-curriculum for these things! And I probably will drop a line or two once I get started with the reading! Truth be told, I’m at the point where I know enough to understand just how little I know about the subject, so I can’t even think of relevant questions at the moment. I’ve focused more on existential philosophy and such so far, needed to fix myself first:))
As for joining an org, that’s in my 2-year plan (life got upended, again, so it’s running alongside several other need-to-do stuff). I will lean very heavily into volunteer work, hopefully that’ll open up some political networks as well. If nothing else, it is urgently clear that it’s time to act as a citizen. Thank Christ we’ve managed to pull another 4 years of European Union (Romanian)… We have a lukewarm Centrist now, but at least it’s not a raging Fascist…
Yep! Marx himself said that the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles, after all. Feudalism does have a lot in common with capitalism, but what makes Marx interesting is how he analyzed how capitalism is different. Many leftists of his era were focused on the similarity between capitalism and feudalism, Marx focused on the opposite, how it’s different, and this is what propelled him into scientific socialism, socialism as it emerges from capitalism.
And no problem for the reading list! It’s designed to be completed in order, and is focused on taking someone freshly radicalized but with no experience with leftist theory, and leave them as someone with a firm grasp on the fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism and how to behave as an organized leftist! It also has audiobooks, queer and feminist theory, a good dose of basic history, and more. Since you mentioned philosophy, the 2nd section goes over Dialectical Materialism, so it might be a really good fit for you if that’s your current interest! Still read section 1 before 2, but 2 is a fun section once you get there!
And great to hear you plan on getting organized! Really, that’s step 1, but obviously not everyone can do so immediately due to life events and whatnot. Just do what you can!
The disparity is actually skyrocketing moreso now, and steadily has been for the last century. The New Deal, as a response to the USSR, did manage to temporarily lower inequality, but corporations weren’t nearly as monopolized. The status we are in today took a long time, and for hundreds of years, disparity was actually much lower than England and other countries that had started capitalism in earnest. The semi-yeoman worker in the US had bargaining power and land, which slowed down tge process of disparity.
None of this is in defense of settler-colonialism. I bring it up because it points to the class character of the US, and helps explain why it’s so far-right and reactionary, as well as why leftist radicalization is increasing rapidly.
Yet again, I agree! But wouldn’t you also agree that the system always had this in-built inequality? What I meant to say was that, while it was less immediately obvious at the start, the subsequent pooling and acceleration of said pooling were always going to happen within this system.
And that’s why I suspect that this was the plan all along, because it has been visible from the start, it didn’t require a retrospective if one was paying enough attention. And those who did got very, very rich.
But even if everyone would have been paying attention*, there would be no room for equality, otherwise the entire pyramid would collapse, taking everyone’s “more than” with it.
Yes, I absolutely agree that the disparity we see today is a direct result of the former social relations. The agrarian slave-driven economy in the south was certainly going to result in conflict with the industrial economy based on wage labor in the north, especially as the north needed new wage laborers to expand industrially. Historical progression is a process of endless spirals, tendencies and trajectories accumulate over time until a quantitative buildup results in a qualitative change.
However, I don’t see it as something that was intentionally planned. Capital doesn’t think that way. Capitalist production is an ever-expanding circuit that must constantly be repeated, anything going against that system of voracious profit gets dashed. Long-term planning is characteristic of socialism, not capitalism, nor the semi-yeoman style of settler-colonial capitalism or slave driven agrarian economy.
This is important, because understanding how we got here today can tell us where we are headed. The historic task of the US proletariat in the age of dying imperialism is to topple the capitalist state and replace it with a socialist state, focusing on decolonization and anti-imperialism. The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. This is only increasingly possible because the US working class is becoming increasingly proletarianized due to monopolist capture of the land, and imperialism is weakening to the point where we cannot be bribed as much by its spoils.
We aren’t here because of some 5-D chess from the old bourgeoisie, nor did the settlers have ignorance of the system. The US settler class was bribed using the spoils of genocide, and its only increasingly true now that there isn’t really a semi-yeoman class. The immense brutality of settler-colonialism can’t keep the US afloat anymore, nor can imperialism.
I’m just trying to help provide a Marxist perspective, as it genuinely gives us a chance of completing the US proletariat’s historic duty. I’m a Marxist-Leninist.
Maybe you’re right, maybe I’m just so completely lacking any faith in greedy humans that I now suspect everything was a ploy. I dunno, maybe it’s one of the pitfalls of hindsight, that it can easily seem to have intentionality when the string of failures is so smooth and perfect. I mean, at the end of the day, Capitalism is, to my mind, uniquely insidious as a system.
Either way, I really don’t want you to think I was disagreeing with you about anything else, whether planned or not, it is most certainly worth learning everything we can from its evolution. As you’ve said, we need to have the future in mind, because this thing’ll be around for at least a bit longer…
Sincerely thank you for the theory! I’m not as versed in these aspects for now, so I don’t know where I’d land on the political/philosophical spectrum exactly. All I know is that I sincerely want everyone to have a truly fair chance at life without having to worry about being persecuted for who they are, without having to be relatively rich to afford basic healthcare (I’m including the various hormone therapies here because it’s well past time we grew the fuck up and stopped obsessing about other people’s genitals, as… uuh… someone smarter than me put it) and without the fear that they may starve or become homeless, ffs… And I also know that what we’ve been doing so far obviously ain’t it…
Modes of production are historical phenomena, guided by technological advancements. Capitalism wasn’t a choice, but a result of growing industrial bourgeois production resolving its contradiction with feudal agrarian production. The steam engine is what accelerated this process. Zooming out, capital is the real master of capitalists, capitalists are merely the high priests of capital best guessing at what it wants, but ultimately are slaves to the profit motive and how to best extract it.
And no worries! One thing that’s helpful, is that the centralization of capitalism over time is exactly what creates a large class capable of collectively planning and running production in the interests of all. The profit motive destroys the profit motive. I try to maintain revolutionary optimism, doomerism is more of a product of the capitalist class trying to remove revolutionary fervor.
Based on your final paragraph, you’d do well with reading leftist theory! I already said I’m a Marxist-Leninist, I actually made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list if you want to spend some time on theory, but you can explore whatever leftist tendencies you want to. The two biggest umbrellas are anarchism and Marxism, the former being about decentralization and horizontalism, the latter being about centralization and collectivization (to massively oversimplify), and the biggest tendency in Marxism is Marxism-Leninism. If you want to learn more about what makes these distinct, feel free to ask, I used to be an anarchist myself.
Also, if you can, join an org! If you’re US-based, I recommend something like The Party for Socialism and Liberation. There are probably other orgs local to you, though, so do some shopping around. Getting organized is the only way out of this mess, and into the new. A better world is possible!
Most definitely have a lot of Leftist reading to do! If nothing else, I at least know I’m well Left of Center:))
Now that I’ve mulled it over some more, I think it feels very intentional to me because I do see a lot of similarities between it and Feudalism, yes! It’s like Capitalism is comprised of multiple smaller monarchies, referring to Corporations and any organisation/person with a large amount of capital at their disposal, and thus influence. But, yeah, we’re talking orders of magitude of complexity above traditional feudalism, so it would stand to reason that it’s most likely just a mathematical whirlpool of sorts. I do agree that capital is the main point of power in Capitalism and that everything else has formed around it.
Which, on a personal side note, is so sad when looking at the big picture! It means that the people in power aren’t actually driven by anything concretely Human™, so to speak, they’ve ceeded full control of themselves and their lives over to the accumulation of something entirely fictitious… It’d be lamentable if it wasn’t so damned dangerous…
Thank you so much for the reading list! It’s so nice to have a quasi-curriculum for these things! And I probably will drop a line or two once I get started with the reading! Truth be told, I’m at the point where I know enough to understand just how little I know about the subject, so I can’t even think of relevant questions at the moment. I’ve focused more on existential philosophy and such so far, needed to fix myself first:))
As for joining an org, that’s in my 2-year plan (life got upended, again, so it’s running alongside several other need-to-do stuff). I will lean very heavily into volunteer work, hopefully that’ll open up some political networks as well. If nothing else, it is urgently clear that it’s time to act as a citizen. Thank Christ we’ve managed to pull another 4 years of European Union (Romanian)… We have a lukewarm Centrist now, but at least it’s not a raging Fascist…
Yep! Marx himself said that the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles, after all. Feudalism does have a lot in common with capitalism, but what makes Marx interesting is how he analyzed how capitalism is different. Many leftists of his era were focused on the similarity between capitalism and feudalism, Marx focused on the opposite, how it’s different, and this is what propelled him into scientific socialism, socialism as it emerges from capitalism.
And no problem for the reading list! It’s designed to be completed in order, and is focused on taking someone freshly radicalized but with no experience with leftist theory, and leave them as someone with a firm grasp on the fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism and how to behave as an organized leftist! It also has audiobooks, queer and feminist theory, a good dose of basic history, and more. Since you mentioned philosophy, the 2nd section goes over Dialectical Materialism, so it might be a really good fit for you if that’s your current interest! Still read section 1 before 2, but 2 is a fun section once you get there!
And great to hear you plan on getting organized! Really, that’s step 1, but obviously not everyone can do so immediately due to life events and whatnot. Just do what you can!