During the space race, sure, from what I can find.

That what? That the US sent animals into space?

American and Russian scientists utilized animals—mainly monkeys, chimps and dogs—in order to test each country’s ability to launch a living organism into space and bring it back alive and unharmed.

Per NASA.

Am I making up that the US sent animals into space? What claim do you think I’m making up? I already linked my source 2 comments ago.

Both sides sent animals into space, and many didn’t return. Animal testing in particular isn’t something unknown to science, nor was it done out of intentional cruelty nor for the purpose of profits, like the cosmetics industry. I feel like you’re narrowing in on something that ultimately isn’t an equivalent comparison, especially when compared to the scale of the food industry and its systematized mass brutality every second of every day.

The world’s bravest and first true cosmonaut.

Not actually true, both sides used animal testing.

Spaceflight rockets are ICBMs, if we are being pedantic. The space program was the civilian-facing part of the broader rocketry programs.

Either way, if we exclude them, it is still true, but you can also measure by ratio. It just goes to show that you can manipulate real data to be presented in any way you want, and add or subtract context as needed for your angle.

Nedelin was a part of the millitary rocketry program, not the space program. If you want to include Nedelin, then the ICBM disasters in the US should also be included. The space programs and ICBM programs were very closely related on both sides, but if we strictly keep it to the space program the soviets were safer.

You can certainly blur the space race with missile development as they were intimately tied on both sides, and if you want to include it then the deaths from the US ICBM disasters need to be included as well, but I do think it’s a bit absurd to uncritically report that 100+ people died in Nedelin when official numbers revealed it to be 54. Plus, wherever you sourced this from is clearly generally biased against the soviets beyond the scope of this report.

Way more were semt by both sides.

Yep, the soviet space program took fewer lives overall.

The soviet space program took fewer lives than the US’s program, yet the US constantly made it seem like it was the soviets that didn’t care about human lives.

Yes, I absolutely agree that the disparity we see today is a direct result of the former social relations. The agrarian slave-driven economy in the south was certainly going to result in conflict with the industrial economy based on wage labor in the north, especially as the north needed new wage laborers to expand industrially. Historical progression is a process of endless spirals, tendencies and trajectories accumulate over time until a quantitative buildup results in a qualitative change.

However, I don’t see it as something that was intentionally planned. Capital doesn’t think that way. Capitalist production is an ever-expanding circuit that must constantly be repeated, anything going against that system of voracious profit gets dashed. Long-term planning is characteristic of socialism, not capitalism, nor the semi-yeoman style of settler-colonial capitalism or slave driven agrarian economy.

This is important, because understanding how we got here today can tell us where we are headed. The historic task of the US proletariat in the age of dying imperialism is to topple the capitalist state and replace it with a socialist state, focusing on decolonization and anti-imperialism. The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. This is only increasingly possible because the US working class is becoming increasingly proletarianized due to monopolist capture of the land, and imperialism is weakening to the point where we cannot be bribed as much by its spoils.

We aren’t here because of some 5-D chess from the old bourgeoisie, nor did the settlers have ignorance of the system. The US settler class was bribed using the spoils of genocide, and its only increasingly true now that there isn’t really a semi-yeoman class. The immense brutality of settler-colonialism can’t keep the US afloat anymore, nor can imperialism.

I’m just trying to help provide a Marxist perspective, as it genuinely gives us a chance of completing the US proletariat’s historic duty. I’m a Marxist-Leninist.

The disparity is actually skyrocketing moreso now, and steadily has been for the last century. The New Deal, as a response to the USSR, did manage to temporarily lower inequality, but corporations weren’t nearly as monopolized. The status we are in today took a long time, and for hundreds of years, disparity was actually much lower than England and other countries that had started capitalism in earnest. The semi-yeoman worker in the US had bargaining power and land, which slowed down tge process of disparity.

None of this is in defense of settler-colonialism. I bring it up because it points to the class character of the US, and helps explain why it’s so far-right and reactionary, as well as why leftist radicalization is increasing rapidly.

My point is that, initially, labor-power wasn’t cheap. That’s why there were slaves and indentured servants, to make up for the fact that the commodity labor-power was pricier. That’s what’s so dangerous about settler-colonialism, it “works” for a far larger portion of society, which is why it has led to some of the most horrendous crimes of all time.

It’s only now that the system is starting to genuinely unravel, but the US Empire’s history as one of the most far-right and brutal countries ever is directly tied to its large settler-colonial class relations.

That’s not enitirely true. The American Dream was (and is) settler-colonialism. Early settlers were promised free land if they killed indigenous peoples living there already, which led to a mostly self-sufficient labor class that could use its self-farmed land as a means to support themselves while bargaining for higher wages. If you were a white man, this dream was attainable, period, even if it meant enslaving and genociding millions of people.

Then came the post-war period. The wartime economy was still fairly planned, and aimed at full employment. Further, the US was emerging as world hegemon and de-facto empire. Imperialism and social safety nets largely expanded due to needing to provide better metrics than the Soviet Union was providing again kept the white men of the US living in the American Dream.

Now that imperialism is decaying, and social safety nets have been gutted along with the fall of the USSR as the main rival power, even white men are starting to fall into genuine proletarianization at large. The US is still a settler-colony, but its one where finance capital has dictatorial control yet imperialism is waning, and where many industries have been hollowed out and shipped overseas because imperialism was more profitable. The US is working its way to its own demise.

I assumed you meant .world can’t see it due to .world’s liberal use of defederation.

I agree, lol, just hoping for them to confront their bias.

It’s openly biased towards communism, it’s a Marxist-Leninist encyclopedia. Wikipedia is also biased towards a western, liberal viewpoint. Truth is underlying and independent of interpretation, but how truth is presented is where bias shines through, and shine it does no matter where you find your source, as every source is biased. ProleWiki is nice because it includes its sources, even though it’s a work in progress, and more importantly the article on imperialism is an explanation of the concept and how it exists in reality from the Marxist-Leninist point of view.

If someone has a different definition of imperialism, you can still read the ProleWiki article and appreciate it, just substitute “imperialism” with “Leninist imperialism,” and read the article with that in mind. Saying a country does or doesn’t meet the Leninist definition of imperialism doesn’t mean it necessarily fits or doesn’t fit other definitions of imperialism. The Leninist interpretation is widespread, however, because it’s useful, and as such serves as an excellent explanation for how capitalism in developed countries functions and why it’s simultaneously wealthy and declining rapidly.

Fair enough. I recommend reading the ProleWiki page on imperialism I linked, it’s much shorter than reading Lenin (though you absolutely should) and can help get you to look at the problems (presumably) we both experience in decaying western countries, and how we can chart a course for a better world. You can’t find solutions without proper analysis of the underlying problems.