I think that’s what the diplomats from 123 of 178 nations are recognizing

No, they are not. They are asking for reparation, that is the entire point of the resolution. Reparation, it is said so many time in the document it is ridiculous. We want to say that slavery in US plantation was worse because it had a race component? Fine! I agree, but we are playing the game of “which crime against humanity is worse?”. I find it just degrading. Because Ghana does not really care about the life of the US american citizens that descended from the slaves. They want reparation for Ghana. And reparation for losing millions of citizen is the same if you lose them to the Arabs or to the Americans or to your own internal plantations with chattel slavery.

If for you this is not hypocrisy I do not know what to say

Again, it is like talking to a wall, you are not addressing my points.

I am not referring to 123 nations as hypocrites, I am referring to the dozen of nations that voted “Yes” for slavery reparation but practiced slavery to the millions of dead and do not intend to pay any reparation.

The US already recognized and apologized for chattel slavery with H. Res. 194.

Again, Roman slavery was one of the most massive example of chattel slavery. Brazil was chattel slavery, the Islamic world engaged in chattel slavery (bantu in salts marshes in Iraq, plantation in Zanzibar, Ottomans plantations for sugar and cotton), the Sokoto Caliphate used chattel slavery (modern Nigeria working in plantations)

The vote at the UN was not for recognition, was for reparations, and the diplomats to the countries involved clarified multiple time that was not an internationally recognized crime at the time, so descended can not be held liable for reparations. Anything else is just performative. What exactly do you expect?

Sorry, but you totally ignored my points. Did you not understand what I said and why I said it?

Why are you trying to say that the millions of African dead in the Sahara are somewhat to be ignored as slavery in the Arab world was more traditional? You are continuing to dismiss spartan and repubblican Rome slavery as humane when we already established that it was worse in mines and villas (when it was also your right to kill the slave with no need for a workaround?). You are trying to dismiss more than 60 years of free and independent Brazil supporting slavery? Portugal was a kingdom, now is a democracy, why you want to keep today people of Portugal accountable for the actions of kings 20 generation separated by modern Portuguese, but you will not keep accountable descendent from the same people living in Brazil? What is the logic here?

My opinion is that in those 123 nations there are lot of hypocrites that have promoted slavery to the milions of dead in the past but will not pay for the reparation in the preposition nor intend to take responsibility for any wrongdoing of the past. That is my point. Why the double standard? They are just dishonest. If European said “Yes” they would have just lied like all that other nations I cited above lying by saying “Yes”.

That resolution is just virtue signaling. It adds non binding untenable principles like an hierarchy of crimes against humanity and reparation across centuries for something that was not an international recognized crime at the time (while we agree it was terrible).

On the countries that voted yes we have:

• Brazil: the biggest slaver country in the trans-atlantic trade (5 million people vs 400K for the US, just to give you some numbers). It abolished slavery in 1888, the last countries in the americas to do so.
• Saudi Arabia, UAE, Yemen, all part of the trans-saharan trade that trafficked between 10 and 18 million african (20% to 25% died in transport on the saharan route). All of three very very late in abolishing slavery, in 1962, 1963 and 1962 respectively. The 1926 league of nation (like the UN) slavery convention was created to stop the Hejaz slave trade centers that connected the arab world with multiple slave routes in africa and asia.
• Turkiye was the major player in the crimean and black sea slave trade (up to 2 million slavic slaves). Turkiye abolish slave trade in 1857, and slavery in general in 1924.
• Algeria, Tunisia and Libya (also in the trans-saharan trade): the centers for the barbary slave trade (1 to 1.25 million people), captured from the costal villages of italy, spain and france. They banned slavery very late, 1848, 1846 and 1912 respectively.

I do not want to engage in whataboutism, that is not my point. My point is that this vote is full of hypocrisy. We are not voting for change, we are voting for scoring political points on easy propaganda at home (west bad, we good). While I hate the US, I found that the fact they opposed the resolution and the reason why they opposed the resolution was at least honest. None of the countries above that voted yes will do anything in terms of reparation, and they are not required to.

Finally, I have to correct you on something you said: both in the Roman Republic and Greece (Sparta) was legal to kill your slave without justification.

Brazil abolished slavery 63 year after independence because of British pressure to do so (can you imagine? The British telling you that is too much!). The last nation in the western world to abolish slavery. After the US. For all intents and purposes, the responsibility of Brazil is exactly on par, if not worse on all metrics, than the responsibility of the US. If you condemn the US you must do the same or more for Brazil.

Just being descriptive. My country abolished slavery 650 years before yours 🤣 and you were calling me a slaver 😂 and talking about me enjoying the spoils of slavery 🤪 your entire agricultural economy is the result of slaves being worked to death. While Brazil was an independent free country!

Hahahahahahahaahaaaa,

Brazil, the country that imported more slaves then any other countries in the Americas. How could I have missed this.

I cannot take you seriously anymore 😂 You lost the insignificant shred of credibility you fought so hard to maintain.

Your country has bought more or less 5.5 million more slaves than mine.

Feel free to continue the name calling. From someone as hypocritical as you is like a medal.

Wait, you are not seriously telling me you are from Brazil aren’t you? Brazil, a Western country!

A corrupt country that is accused of exploitation of other countries like Angola (via BNDES loans), or Bolivia (with Petrobras), or Mozabique (with both Vale and the ProSavana project).

That would be the funniest thing ever

If your standard for imperialism is “some companies from a state are operating in another state under that state regulated market” then every state is imperialistic: Italy’s Trenitalia manage trains in Spain and the UK, Spain bank Santander operate as a major player in Italy, Germany Volkswagen operate factories in Mexico, China and Brazil. China battery CATL operates in Spain. Brazil aerospace Embraer has factories in Portugal.

But is interesting your shift from “your country is a slaver country” to “your country’s companies operate subsidiary in other law regulated markets”.

For example, Enel (Italy) operate in South America with concessions that can be revoked by the country if Enel does not follow the law, while prices are not decided by Enel. Electrical grid is a natural monopoly, so prices are decided by government entities (ANEEL for Brazil, CREG for Colombia, CNE for chile). See for example this: https://legal.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/chile-fines-italys-enel-19-million-over-2024-power-outages/117472660 “We hope that not just Enel, but all companies, see that they need to comply with regulations and understand that in Chile nobody is above the law”

And sorry to reiterate but fascism and imperialism are not the same. While both have an affinity for capital market, the core tenant of fascism is militarism, political violence, suppression of media and suppression of the individual to serve the state. State that are fascist are Russia for example, with other arguing that Hungary is becoming a fascist regime as well. The current US administration has traits that I would link with fascism as well. Other states with strong nationalism are North Korea, Myanmar, Eritrea.

Then I guess I am one of those exception then. Not sure you would agree, but the only western countries that qualify to me are the US, the UK, France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain and Portugal. To a lesser extent also Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland and Germany.

That keeps lot of western countries out. Austria, Hungary, Croatia,Slovenia, Italy, Greece, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Australia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia.

Imperialism is not fascist. Imperialism was born much earlier than fascism was.

what are those fascist ideas? You are the one that is continuously telling me I am a fascist, an abuser, an evil terrible person. The only thing I said at the start of the conversation with you was that my country was a western country and not a slaver country. It is like this simple fact is imploding your limited view of the world.

I guess their infrastructure was bombed by the US, not by my country. I am happy with your beef with the US, I also have beef with the US, but I am neither fascist nor american.

answer the questions i posed you in the comment you responded to

I honestly have no idea what you are referring to… my country has trade imbalances with African country in favor of those countries, so technically with that and the amount of remittances and foreign aid, technically I pay for your salaries not the other way around. I am honestly confused what you are referring to.

Just to give you an example my country pays an African country in natural gas three times what it sells in manufactured goods so it is not that bad. I mean, they definitely want to keep that deal. Regarding the electrical infrastructure, that is something China does, for example with Laos, not my country.

I have yet to see these famous spoils you are talking about…

sure, but I am not american, so my country has never bombed iran, venezuela or palestine, so I guess all this is irrelevant. If you are referring to the CFA franc I am not French either.

quote me where i lied about anything here. -> you force them onto your own currency, or keep bombing

there. But I need to know your country to be sure. Are you iranian?

You do not know what my country is, I do not know what your country is, but rest assured you are not using my currency. You are just asserting vague lies.

what a joke. you lobby to destroy our economy and environment then pretend sending few millions to the corrupt politicians you propagandized into power will fix anything, like you are the moral god of reparations. fuck you and your country.

How, please explain. How. You do not even know what my country is. You are just spreading lies because of your bias

(actually, i wish you stopped lecturing us on shit you do to us like it’s not that bad, it is bad)

I do nothing to you. The “shit” my country is doing to you is probably buying raw material on the market and selling high-value manufactured good. The same that China does, so I do not understand what do you mean by “allusion”. The other “shit” my country does is brain drain allowing migrants from your country to mine. And in the end billions of euros every years go from my country to your as remittances, foreign aid and investment. Details depends on the country.

Full of people in the US that work 6-7 days 12-14 hours a day an still live in poverty. That is not about how much money a country has, but the labor laws.

There is no need for racism to enable modern exploitation. Most western countries exploit their own citizens. Neocolonialism is driven by profit maximization, geopolitical realism and capitalism. See Soviet economic imperialism and china belt and road initiative. Race was a moral justification in the past. It is not needed anymore.

Never said black people don’t deserve any kind of help. That is just stupid. What I said is:

• not all western countries are responsible for trans-atlantic slave trade
• lot of african slave trade is from non wester countries
• track enslavers and enslaved across 5 centuries is an impossible task

What I agree is:

• all countries involved in slavery should recognize the role they had in the centuries before and work to prevent discrimination and exploitation in modern society
• neocolonialism needs to stop now
• those countries engaged in neocolonialism needs to provide support to help underdeveloped countries

I see nothing racist in this opinion, but please enlighten me. The only one talking all the time about black and white is actually you

While I agree in part with the sentiment, I think is totally unfair to consider ancient slavery in Greece or Rome as less cruel. It was not less cruel depending on the slave in question. Slaves in mines and agricultural estates were in worse conditions then anything in American south. But if you were an educated slave then your life was indeed better. That also means that was common for slaves in ancient Rome to be able to buy freedom. Slavery was everywhere in society, so the comparison is really hard to make.

There is indeed a racial component in colonial slavery that was not present in ancient Roman slavery. A slave could be from Germany or from Syria and there was no difference in treatment.

I would say that both late trans-atlantic slavery and nazism share a philosophical root in the eugenetic movement, but both grew in parallel with different motives: in one case a justification for economic exploitation, in the other an ideological tool to enforce unity in nationalism.

The transatlantic slave trade started before the concept of race and the eugenetic movement. During the 15th century the justification was more routed in religion and the idea of having prisoner of war being better then to kill the enemy. Still and excuse for economic exploitation, but maybe more akin to what the greeks and romans were doing.