So don’t delay, fuck now, supplies are fucking out
Fuck now, if you’re still alive, six to eight fucks to arrive
And if you fuck more, there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer’s fucked
You might as well be fuckin’ on the sun
Dance like these is as intimidating as getting booed, they should quit their leadership position if they feel physically threatened by it. It’s a dance, hon, not waving gun or sword around.
A ritual dance is physical intimidation? I suppose you’d say having aggressive body language (looking angry) is physical intimidation too.
We should put all government officials on valium so they don’t accidentally get too emotionally invested in what they’re discussing, lest they accidentally physically intimidate someone with an angry face.
Obviously ministers with resting-bitch-face will have to be permanently barred from attending parliament, for the safety of their colleagues. We wouldn’t want such blatant physical intimidation on the day to day after all.
The point being, if you think a native ritual dance is the same as being physically intimidated, rather than seeing it as their culture’s way of expressing their feelings on some important matters, then you’re entirely missing the point and showing a lack of understanding of your own nation’s culture at a basic level, and probably shouldn’t be representing those same citizens at the government level.
I imagine politicians that clueless would just say “Oh my, the natives have gone feral! Look at that display of raw physical intimidation! Jeeves, fetch my musket and don’t fire till you see the whites of their eyes!”
If you feel physically intimidated by what is essentially some well known and well respected people in a debating hall being angry about the current topic of discussion and telling you they’re angry in a recognised and common cultural manner, then I can’t help you.
You seem very uninformed about the history of the Haka.
There are many different ones, but the most common one, Ka Mate, is usually performed by sports teams before a game, and is meant to be intimidating.
They were historically performed by a tribe’s mightiest warriors when other chiefs came to visit, as one example. They’re often a war dance, a show of power.
I don’t know about other commenters, but I’m absolutely not uninformed, and this was in no way out of line given the context.
Hakas have evolved from traditional war dances and are often performed at sports events, that’s true, but the Ka Mate is also performed in many other contexts (including at funerals and after separation of families) and should not be boiled down to simple intimidation – it’s more a show of resolve. Do you think groups of people meeting after a long absence are trying to threaten one another or that mourners are trying to intimidate the deceased? The meaning has nuance and is not a simple threat; it’s about the will to overcome adversity, and is basically the national anthem of the Māori’s iwi, which was fought for in this very Parliament, and which resulted in the Haka (Ka Mate) Attribution Act after colonisation. I honestly cannot think of a more fitting time and place to perform it than in this context.
If you’ve only seen it in a sports context, I can see how you might think it’s simply a modernised war dance meant to intimidate an opposing group, but that’s a very reductionist view of it.
Ka Mate is the haka often performed by the All Blacks. It begins with ‘Ka mate, ka mate, ka ora, ka ora’, which translates to ‘I die, I die, I live, I live.’
One can only imagine how Ngati Toa Chief Te Rauparaha felt when he first chanted these words 200 years ago. He had just evaded capture by a rival iwi (tribe) and was given shelter by another iwi, who hid him underground in a kūmara (sweet potato) pit. Ka mate tells this story, describing how Te Rauparaha shook off adversity to emerge from the darkness of the kūmara pit into the light.
Te Rauparaha went on to evade capture a few more times and to become a great Māori chief and warrior, helping to expand Ngāti Toa’s territory across the lower North Island.
You can read the origin of the Ka Mate from New Zealand Geographic – this is not a story of war and intimidation, but of perseverence and the will to overcome.
Ka Mate shouldn’t be viewed as an intimidation tactic that’s morphed from war to sports, but as a deeply cultural story that absolutely has a place in New Zealand Parliament, and some overstuffed colonists being offended is disdainful at best.
e: oh, I also meant to mention that, even long ago, haka weren’t meant to be simply war dances to intimidate and threaten in preparation for battle but, ideally, to head off the need for battle in the first place. A well-performed haka was in stead of battle, not just in preparation for one. The point was to not have to fight, but to impress and come to agreement. That’s nearly the opposite of what many people think these dances were for.
Of course intimidation is the point – psychological/political intimidation, not physical. Context matters. Don’t try to pretend that the other MPs were scared they were gonna charge at them with taiahas or something, because that’s bullshit and you know it.
Its root is in physical intimidation before battle yes, but on the floor of parliament it’s clearly intended as an act of cultural display of resistance, not one of “do as we say or we will hurt you”.
The modern suit comes from military uniforms. Hell, they have a guy with a mace when parliament is in session. This military imagery has come to the authority of the democratic process and appears at least throughout the anglosphere, but it’s using military imagery to do so.
Just as the colonizer uses military imagery to represent the authority and tradition of institutions, the colonized may use their own military imagery to represent opposition to colonial acts.
Yes there’s lots of ceremonial aspects to parliament and if they wanted to include more maori tradition into it, I’d be all in favour.
This is akin to randomly bellowing out the national anthem in the middle of a voting session but with more bite. I’d expect somebody doing that to be sanctioned too.
This is akin to randomly bellowing out the national anthem in the middle of a voting session but with more bite. I’d expect somebody doing that to be sanctioned too.
With the harshest punishment ever given within their government?
The haka happened last November. They haven’t been punished until now. You’d think if it was that severe they wouldn’t wait 5 months to punish them for it.
Agreed. If that had been targeted at me, I would have crapped my pants.
The Speaker sure looked like he wanted to.
Wider angle video showing the whole scope of it plus his reaction, which was priceless.
I think maybe he actually did.
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You can fuck allll the way off.
And after you’re done fucking off, please go right ahead and keep fucking off until you reach the sun
Wait, if we could harness that level of fuck off power, we could transition to renewable energy much sooner.
So don’t delay, fuck now, supplies are fucking out
Fuck now, if you’re still alive, six to eight fucks to arrive
And if you fuck more, there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer’s fucked
You might as well be fuckin’ on the sun
So can you really!? Not helpful discourse at all.
I dunno, trying to educate shit people has gotten us nowhere either. Might as well just tell em to fuck off.
A dance is not equate to a gun, this is not some magical world where people cast spell by dancing 🤦
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Dance like these is as intimidating as getting booed, they should quit their leadership position if they feel physically threatened by it. It’s a dance, hon, not waving gun or sword around.
deleted by creator
Nah, we’re just not bigots like you.
A ritual dance is physical intimidation? I suppose you’d say having aggressive body language (looking angry) is physical intimidation too.
We should put all government officials on valium so they don’t accidentally get too emotionally invested in what they’re discussing, lest they accidentally physically intimidate someone with an angry face.
Obviously ministers with resting-bitch-face will have to be permanently barred from attending parliament, for the safety of their colleagues. We wouldn’t want such blatant physical intimidation on the day to day after all.
The point being, if you think a native ritual dance is the same as being physically intimidated, rather than seeing it as their culture’s way of expressing their feelings on some important matters, then you’re entirely missing the point and showing a lack of understanding of your own nation’s culture at a basic level, and probably shouldn’t be representing those same citizens at the government level.
I imagine politicians that clueless would just say “Oh my, the natives have gone feral! Look at that display of raw physical intimidation! Jeeves, fetch my musket and don’t fire till you see the whites of their eyes!”
If you feel physically intimidated by what is essentially some well known and well respected people in a debating hall being angry about the current topic of discussion and telling you they’re angry in a recognised and common cultural manner, then I can’t help you.
You seem very uninformed about the history of the Haka.
There are many different ones, but the most common one, Ka Mate, is usually performed by sports teams before a game, and is meant to be intimidating.
They were historically performed by a tribe’s mightiest warriors when other chiefs came to visit, as one example. They’re often a war dance, a show of power.
The audience is supposed to be intimidated
I don’t know about other commenters, but I’m absolutely not uninformed, and this was in no way out of line given the context.
Hakas have evolved from traditional war dances and are often performed at sports events, that’s true, but the Ka Mate is also performed in many other contexts (including at funerals and after separation of families) and should not be boiled down to simple intimidation – it’s more a show of resolve. Do you think groups of people meeting after a long absence are trying to threaten one another or that mourners are trying to intimidate the deceased? The meaning has nuance and is not a simple threat; it’s about the will to overcome adversity, and is basically the national anthem of the Māori’s iwi, which was fought for in this very Parliament, and which resulted in the Haka (Ka Mate) Attribution Act after colonisation. I honestly cannot think of a more fitting time and place to perform it than in this context.
If you’ve only seen it in a sports context, I can see how you might think it’s simply a modernised war dance meant to intimidate an opposing group, but that’s a very reductionist view of it.
From newzealand.com:
You can read the origin of the Ka Mate from New Zealand Geographic – this is not a story of war and intimidation, but of perseverence and the will to overcome.
And here’s a fantastic breakdown on the meaning and how to perform it from the Australian International School (AIS).
Ka Mate shouldn’t be viewed as an intimidation tactic that’s morphed from war to sports, but as a deeply cultural story that absolutely has a place in New Zealand Parliament, and some overstuffed colonists being offended is disdainful at best.
e: oh, I also meant to mention that, even long ago, haka weren’t meant to be simply war dances to intimidate and threaten in preparation for battle but, ideally, to head off the need for battle in the first place. A well-performed haka was in stead of battle, not just in preparation for one. The point was to not have to fight, but to impress and come to agreement. That’s nearly the opposite of what many people think these dances were for.
Of course intimidation is the point – psychological/political intimidation, not physical. Context matters. Don’t try to pretend that the other MPs were scared they were gonna charge at them with taiahas or something, because that’s bullshit and you know it.
e: I replied to the wrong comment, sorry. Moved my reply to your parent.
Actually, I don’t think one of the Maori party MPs throwing hands is particularly far fetched.
Yes
Yes (but just looking angry is not body language. It’s a facial expression. Screaming at someone with your arms flailing is aggressive body language)
Do you even know the history of the Haka? It’s a warrior’s dance to intimidate their foes. Modern haka can have many meanings, but that’s it’s root.
Hey hey now, what’s with this intimidating post? Sounds like I may need my gun.
Its root is in physical intimidation before battle yes, but on the floor of parliament it’s clearly intended as an act of cultural display of resistance, not one of “do as we say or we will hurt you”.
The modern suit comes from military uniforms. Hell, they have a guy with a mace when parliament is in session. This military imagery has come to the authority of the democratic process and appears at least throughout the anglosphere, but it’s using military imagery to do so.
Just as the colonizer uses military imagery to represent the authority and tradition of institutions, the colonized may use their own military imagery to represent opposition to colonial acts.
Yes there’s lots of ceremonial aspects to parliament and if they wanted to include more maori tradition into it, I’d be all in favour.
This is akin to randomly bellowing out the national anthem in the middle of a voting session but with more bite. I’d expect somebody doing that to be sanctioned too.
With the harshest punishment ever given within their government?
Did you see the video? The arm stuff looks like jazz hands.
The haka happened last November. They haven’t been punished until now. You’d think if it was that severe they wouldn’t wait 5 months to punish them for it.
I wonder how close they anticipate that vote being.
My bet is those 3 votes would have made a difference.
When the threats come from governaments you suddenly stop caring i bet