“I don’t think we can’t work together on pronoun politics. This election did not teach you how damaging that is. I don’t think there’s anything that I can tell you,” Carville said on the Politics War Room podcast on Tuesday…Carville’s comments came after he said last week that the Democratic Party needed to distance themselves from identity politics because their first priority should be to win elections.
I’m 50 and fairly set in my ways.
My wife and I took in a trans person in need almost a year ago.
I’d never known a trans person before, not personally. It took me maybe two weeks to get used to pronouns. Now it’s second nature.
You’re nothing but a fucking bigot if you can’t try to change just a little bit to make others comfortable.
To keep making this an issue just makes it even clearer. You aren’t interested in being inclusive. You refuse to try. Fuck off and retire, Carville.
I cant believe after all these years we are still seeing idiot Carville in the news.
He’s saying that the party needs to move to the right. He will always have someone willing to put him in front of a camera they’re not too attached to.
You’re seeing him because he’s still relevant and has a lot of sway with the DNC.
Nobody is right all the time, and some things are wrong but right in certain political times. Obama ran opposing gay marriage then did a 180. Carville is right the trans issue loses far more votes than it gains, since you can’t progress without winning they just need to stsop talking about it.
The “trans issue” is a right wing cudgel. If you drop it today, they will invent a new one tomorrow.
It might be the immigrants. Ok so you deport them all, without cause, every single one.
It might be the poor. Ok so you move them all into workhouses, slaves to enrich the wealthy.
It might be the educated, because if they can’t understand anything, why should anyone else?
Retreat on one front, and you allow them to access the next.
And if you don’t retreat from some you lose on all like last year.
The only way to progress on any issue you care about is to win
Democrats DID retreat from numerous issues. They retreated from immigration. They retreated from Palestine. They retreated from taxing the wealthy. They retreated from healthcare. They retreated from trans people. They retreated from the minimum wage. They retreated from shunning Bush-era war criminals.
Democrats work so hard to “keep their powder dry” that they never end up firing a single fucking shot. They’re not strategic geniuses; they’re just cowards.
I hate to break the news, but you can’t win a war by retreating.
Just look at WWII and Dunkirk. Those boys needed to stay and fight.
Don’t act like this is the battle of Dunkirk when it’s just more Chamberlain-style nazi appeasement.
A withdrawal may be anticipated, as when a defending force is outmatched or on disadvantageous ground, but it must cause as much damage to an enemy as possible. In such a case, the retreating force may use a number of tactics and strategies to further impede the enemy’s progress.
Let’s be clear, how exactly is throwing trans people into the orphan crushing machine going to hinder the fascists? The damage you are mitigating is to yourself, you’re not retreating with the trans people, you’re using them as human shields.
Funny how retreating involves throwing a group of people between you and the enemy.
This is how we got a party named “Labour Party”, that continued the privatization and other austerity work of the neoliberals.
This is how we got a party named “Magyar Szocialista Párt” (Hungarian Socialist Party) that continued the privatization of neoliberals, then implemented austerity measures.
And this is how on one day, we get an interview with Christofer Rufo, who will claim his greatest achivement was to make a supposedly “progressives” move right on social issues so far, that they not only kept ban on gender transition, “public homosexual affection”, and ban on women’s votes, but further dismantled any remains of what we used to call “secularism”, but we will have to call it “state mandated satanism” in the future.
This is the dumbest timeline.
Stupid, the way to go is to misgender everyone until it becomes obvious how personal preferences should be considered in a functional society. This hair challenged madam is a hysterical bitch!! Signed, a cis person who gets misgendered literally all the time.
The problem with carville and these “left” people… is that the party HAS BEEN distancing themselves. They have been avoiding talking about the topics unless specifically asked. The problem is the right makes it their pillar, so the media specifically asks them. Leaving candidates with the choice of “express support in peoples rights to be themselves” or “oppose their rights to be themselves”.
The right won’t leave the option to “distance”, because they will make sure it’s brought up every debate every situation.
Fucking go for it! Honestly I’m okay with splitting the party if the party refuses to move forward or compromise with progressives while bending over backwards to find bipartisanship with Neo-Nazis.
Whichever group is not recognized as the Democratic Party of elections past will have zero ballot access without huge signature campaigns in every state. No 3rd party was on all 50 states’ ballots in 2024. Only 3 were on more than 10 states’ ballots. Take all that energy and enthusiasm for a new party and out into the Democratic Party primaries (unless your state already has some form of ranked choice voting at the state level).
Take all that energy and enthusiasm for a new party and out into the Democratic Party primaries
Do honest primaries, then.
Were eligible voters turned away, or did they stay home? Were eligible candidates prevented from running, or did they choose not to? Which candidates won the popular vote in the primary and then were not nominated?
I’m fully aware that the donors exert pressure with campaign funding, just like any PAC can do. And I’m fully against the Citizens United ruling and the corrupting influence of money. But at the end of the day any eligible candidate can still choose to run against the candidate that the donors prefer, and the voters can choose to show up and vote for them. There is always that choice.
The owner/donor class is never going to not use the resources they have just because it’s an unfair advantage. The only leverage we have is to show and vote in bigger numbers.
You’re gloating that the deck is stacked.
No, I’m trying to point out the stark reality to people who keep saying the DNC needs to give us better candidates and ignore donors. I’m saying we need to wake up and realize that we have to give ourselves better candidates because the donors are not going to. They didn’t give us AOC. She decided she was going to run against the establishment incumbent and the people came out to vote for her. That’s what we need, everywhere. We need candidates to challenge the crap-ass incumbents whether the DNC likes it or not, and then we as voters need to show and vote for them. That’s how elections work. People enter the race, then people vote, and one of the people who had entered the race is going to win no matter how many people don’t vote. We need more engagement instead of removing ourselves from the process. Removing ourselves only serves to support the status quo. The new head of the DNC used to chair a progressive minor party in Minnesota, before he ran for and was elected to the chair of the Minnesota Democratic Party. He wasn’t appointed to those positions as some good-will to the voters by the DNC. He was elected to those positions. The party won’t change itself for us, so we have to change it through the primaries and the internal party leadership elections.
No, I’m trying to point out the stark reality to people who keep saying the DNC needs to give us better candidates and ignore donors. I’m saying we need to wake up and realize that we have to give ourselves better candidates because the donors are not going to. They didn’t give us AOC. She decided she was going to run against the establishment incumbent and the people came out to vote for her. That’s what we need, everywhere.
Yeah, democrats learned from AOC, which is how you got the party bending over backward to “protect the incumbent” when coathanger cuellar had a progressive challenger, but doing fucking nothing to protect incumbents Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman when they got primaried. The party plays favorites.
That’s how elections work.
When we have primaries. When the party wants to keep the genocide going, they don’t give us a choice. Just “you’re voting like we order you because we’re second worst”.
The new head of the DNC used to chair a progressive minor party in Minnesota, before he ran for and was elected to the chair of the Minnesota Democratic Party. He wasn’t appointed to those positions as some good-will to the voters by the DNC. He was elected to those positions.
I wonder what he had to promise. I don’t trust the party until it shows it’s trustworthy again. With actions. Overt actions, not “they’re totally not useless corporate shit behind the scenes.”
What a chucklefuck.
That old idiot was never a “with” the left.
I think its beat if we separate the left and the progressives, lefties aren’t necessarily progressive.
A viable third party? Sure!
Going fascist to beat the fascists? Crawl back into RFK Jrs skull!
There are no viable third parties beyond local offices without ranked choice voting. Maybe county. In 2024 not one 3rd party was on the ballot in all 50 states. Only 3 managed to get on the ballot in more than 10 states. Vote in the major party primaries and, if your state has it (only 26 do) work on a ballot initiative to get ranked choice. But don’t vote 3rd party at the state or federal level unless you already have ranked choice.
They got us fighting a culture war so we don’t fight a class war.
upvoting because it needs discussion.
I have weird grammatical issues with they/them - I am old, its oddly strange (despite some historical precedent)to me and I dont like being told what words I use to describe the world around me.
so, I ask for a name. whatever name you give me, I use. tell me your name is “they”. cool fucking beans, its the name I use. I find a way to be respectful of another human being and still make it make sense to me. I make it fit into my small goddamn ancient cranium and when I, and other ancients like me are dead and gone, I hope those who come after have fewer “issues” with it.
if I can find ways to make it work then so can everyone else. tired of the right turning everyone into a real fucking snowflake. fuck anyone who chooses to divide people from people.
You being ancient is no excuse. They/them has been used as a gender-neutral pronouns for centuries. Shakespeare used it, for God’s sake. You’re not out of date, you’re just using your age as an excuse.
as I pointed out, I am well aware of historical usage. we are not all the same person and do not all process things in the same way. I find ways to make it make sense for me because I know we are all different. I am trying to point out that, whatever your disposition, you can as well.
edit: just realized that you may not have seen the edits to my original comment. apologies if so.
I know this is going to be unpopular here but I will 100% tell you that there’s a lot of people now voting for the GOP because they are upset about pronoun politics. My dad has voted Democrat every election his entire life because he is in a Labor Union. This time him and most of his union buddies voted Trump. My neighbor is hispanic and employs a lot of hispanic contractors. Most of them voted with the GOP because they are upset about how the schools are presenting pronoun policy. There’s a lot of this out there. They can agree with the Democrat party in terms of healthcare, taxation, foreign policy, and a whole lot of other things but this one issue really drives at the core of what they think it means to be a human person … and they don’t like it.
Most of them voted with the GOP because they are upset about how the schools are presenting pronoun policy.
And most of it is complete bullshit. They lie - they say teachers are letting students identify as cats and shit. Or with the sports stuff - the current outrage over a woman who intentionally went to a fencing competition that allowed trans women, so she could cause a scene. Amateur fencing is typically coed anyway - when I took an intro fencing class they paired us with whoever. The same woman had faced a man a few weeks ago even IIRC!
Then she’s claiming that she was afraid for her life - as if the brutish strength of anyone with an XY chromosome is going to make fencing deadly.
Democrats don’t give a shit about trans people and haven’t. Fox News and OAN and Alex Jones have Republicans convinced that middle school teachers are doling out puberty blockers.
I’m sick of this “Democrats are failing because of pronoun politics” because they haven’t done Jack shit for us.
Sorry to say, but your dad and his friends are dumb as shit.
“Someone asked me to use words they wanted to refer to themselves so I just had to vote fascist! …I feel bullied, really.”
People would rather destroy the planet, crash the economy, and send their countrymen to a gulag in El Salvador than respect someone’s preferred pronoun
It’s become an overriding issue for them because the media they consume convinced them a trivial grammatical feature “really drives at the core of what they think it means to be a human person”. If the pronoun issue disappears, the same media will pick some other random issue no one currently cares about to elevate into another existential crisis—and idiots like Carville will keep taking the bait, believing the newest fake issue on the distraction treadmill is their last remaining obstacle to victory.
Sorry mate, I don’t buy the excuse.
They can agree with the Democrat party in terms of healthcare, taxation, foreign policy, and a whole lot of other things but…
If this were true, then any reasonably intelligent person can put together a list of Pros and Cons and see that the pros massively outweigh the cons here. To still vote for the Con - the literal con artist - despite all evidence to the contrary, means 1) they’re lying about why they vote, or 2) they’re morons who are terrible at assessing values and threats, or both.
It’s almost certainly #2. What are you going to do about it? Keep losing elections and getting nothing you want or make some Democrats more popular who may be a little wishy-washy on some of your issues but generally supportive of labor rights and not jailing people in El Salvador?
Well, don’t be surprised when people start normalizing using ethnic slurs against Hispanic people. If you don’t have the common decency to refer to people respectfully, why would you expect others to protect you from the same treatment?
I love this so much.
When the left of the party has a problem with centrists’ genocide, we don’t listen to them.
When the right of the party has a problem with trans people being alive, we listen to them.
