Good piece, thanks for posting it. This part really struck home.
One of the mistakes a lot of political people make is that voters have rational and reasoned choices about which party they support; if you vote for a Far Right party you must love Far Right policies.
That’s not true.
Most decisions are vibe-based. We have enough data to show that the lowest of low information voters who are behind Reform have zero idea of the party’s policies. In fact, many of Reform’s aims are in direct opposition to what those voters want.
While they can be considered Far Right on some fronts — massively racist, “hanging’s too good for ‘em” — in other areas they have what would be classed as socialist beliefs. Tax the wealthy till the pips squeak. Invest in public services.
They’re better characterised as Smash the System voters. It’s not working for us how it used to - I’ll vote for anyone who looks like they’re going to upend the status quo.
That bitterness at losing their place in society has made them easy prey to those who promise the clock can be turned back to the days when they were on top. Right now those disillusioned voters feel they’re in an existential fight and they’ll take the support of anyone who says they will break the new way of operating. Trump. Farage. Le Pen and Bardella. Weidel.
I live in rural America. Trump and the right have a lot of vocal support in my area. But when I talk to people, leaving out names of politicians and parties, and just talk to them about specific policies, a huge fraction support policies that, if supported by a republican politician, would get that politician primaried so fast their heads would spin.
This article rings true to me in that all most rural voters know is that the system doesn’t work for them anymore, so they will support anyone who claims to want to break the current system and restore it to what used to work for their grandparents.
This is true, which is why people should stop telling others not to point out how ineffectual Democrats are. If the left gave them a Sanders-like platform, which lays the blame for most of our problems at the feet of rich people, we could tap into that anger and use it to get some shit done. The strategy for the last 20 years has been to tell voters that everything is fine. That doesn’t work when they’re telling you “no it fucking isn’t”.
I think I need help with this, because I also interact with some “low information” (I don’t like that term) voters, who agree with me on a lot of policy. I struggle to extend the grace I need to because it makes me even more upset. At least fascists and racists have a real reason to vote for this. I’m having a convo with someone and they’re ostensibly pro choice and pro gay rights, and they still voted Trump. When I ask about why they voted for him if Rs are historically anti those things it’s because Trump is just “better for America”. I try to reason and kindly ask questions etc and I hope I make some inroads, but internally I just dislike them as people. How am I supposed to square that? They care so little about their purported positions they don’t actually care if they happen, so long as some other nebulous concept of America becoming great happens. It upsets me and I can’t help but think they’re just bad people who don’t actually care about others, they’re just too stupid to realize that. They know conceptually gay marriage is ok, they just don’t actually believe it so are willing to throw it away for vibes? I don’t know, sounds like being a bad person with extra steps.
Vibes based voting is stupid, but vibes over policy means you care more about vibes than policy, so how much do they really care about the policy? Also, what kind of person are you that you get good vibes from Trump?
I go back and forth with myself about this so much, but there’s always a part that believes no matter how “low information” you are, you have seen or heard Trump do some heinous stuff that you are willing to overlook even though you don’t know his actual policy stance. That’s at least been my experience with low information voters. I wish there was just a magical phrase someone could say that would make me understand that not all Trump voters are bad people, but I’ve yet to come across it. Truly looking for more insight on this if anyone is willing to share.
I feel this. Its basically more infuriating where as if they are just straight up evil at least they would be voting consistant with their values. Every so often I have said im not sure which is worse evil or stupid but oftentimes I lean toward stupid. As much as we say policies favor the wealthy it really does not in a long term holistic way. The one cult expert guy has it right. It was only a few years ago that I realized mlm was a cult (I mean I always realized its a scam but never realized the people in it were so brainwashed) and he got me to realize it really is the same with maga.
There’s a question I have, and it’s an honest one: Did you ask WHY ? and HOW?
One can’t begin to understand another until those they are trying to understand provide those answers to those questions
…Otherwise it’s just two strangers making noise.
Why and how what? Why and how Trump? Yes, I’ve asked, but it’s not sensible. The other commenter seems to have had similar experiences where the answer is tautological or not grounded in reality. Trump is going to “get rid of the deep state”. How/why? More nonsensical stuff. It’s a cult at a certain point and you can’t logic someone out of something they didn’t logic themselves into. I am willing to engage with them but it’s hard to not write them off as bad people if they were willing to go against logic and against helping people. The article itself points out these people are voting against things they say they want. That’s not logical unless they want other things more, and the thing they want more than a progressive tax rate is some nonexistent vibe they want to achieve.
I can answer for both sides but they’re unwilling to see that their how and why is flawed.
You keep asking until you find that one nugget that can be shined. Then you shine it until it burns all the shit around it
Just my opinion
Vibes based voting is stupid
This is a fact, but it’s the reality we’re dealing with. This is the very thing that Colbert was parodying all those years ago on the Colbert Report saying things like; I vote with my gut not my brain, and he doesn’t like facts because they aren’t ‘truthy’ enough, and reality has a liberal bias. This is essentially how these people think.
I have a lot of trouble talking to them too, because if you point out the failings of the republican party you get a “Well, the dems are worse.” reflex. If you point out the pros of the democrats, you get a reflexive “Yeah, but they’re all criminals.” I sincerely believe that there is a conversational path you can walk to open their minds a bit,
I think that the democrats need to be taking notes from the Sanders, AOC, and now Mamdani on how to win over these voters. They talk about policies and goals that support the poor and the working class but the democrats, for the most part, are not going that route. Many seem to think saying that, I’m not the republican is good enough and it clearly isn’t.
Thanks for sharing. I was just recently suggesting that populism from the left has the power to retake the culture, but the Dems are not taking advantage of that. Hopefully our conversations prove somewhat helpful in the grand scheme of things. I am seeing some movement from them, but not enough to feel like it’s been worthwhile. Keep up the fight.
This does ring true. And the right has been systematically attacking public education for decades, with considerable success. They have created the constituency they knew they would need to do what they actually want to do. The worst of it is that there’s nothing we can do about it, in the short term. Education operates on a generational time scale. We desperately need to fix this, but even if we had the political power to do that, which we currently do not, it would be at least twenty years before it could begin to affect things.
I think we are nearing the point where even the far-right base is realizing that what’s being done is making things worse for the, not better. We may get a window of opportunity to start fixing things. When and if we do, progressives need to be decisive and daring. Big changes need to be made and made quickly.
The Democratic party, as it currently stands, is not going to do what is needed. It needs to be reformed or replaced if we’re going to make this work. The best of the alternatives would be the return of something like the Great Depression.
I don’t think the system we have will allow the practical creation of a new party, but I have begun to wonder if we can’t get away with bypassing the Democratic “leadership”. If we get progressive candidates through the primaries as Democrats, and support them directly with funding and volunteers, we can get them elected.
I still actually do believe the Internet will start producing worthwhile information again. I’m noticing patterns of the Internet being useful and filled with dogshit and back to useful.
Just give those wonderful Indian dudes some time to make more YouTube videos on every subject
Wealth inequality causes the vast majority of economic and societal issues.
It’s an education thing.
