From a political standpoint, it comes down to weighing the political cost of sneaking in a camera and possibly being arrested for trying to sneak photos out, and between the knowledge that anyone who’s listening damn well knows how fucking bad it is there already without having to see pictures. And the political value of acting like victims of fascism (which they unquestionably are) might be more valuable than showing pictures and video of horrors that Americans are already numb to.
In short, there is more value in being denied the ability to take photo and video then there is an actually showing the photos and video. That way, people will assume the worst as their imaginations will allow rather than showing yet another video of people in horrific conditions. If that sort of imagery could motivate Americans to act, it would have already. The imminent threat to free speech is far more concerning to the people of this country as a whole.
🤷♂️ no one is gonna do anything. We can point fingers all we want but even the people who truly are not okay with this will still do nothing. You, me, etc.
Cameras that are disguised as buttons. They even have tiny cameras that can be tucked in a bra that can see through clothing. Undercover cops use these types of devices for evidence during a drug buy or prostitution sting.
I disagree completely with you. People who know it’s bad aren’t going to do anything, and people who think others are overreacting aren’t going to care without proof.
This is like a factory farm where all the animals are kept in horrible conditions. You cannot make a vegan out of “they are treated bad” but you can if you show them.
I feel you are just making excuses for weak people who can do something but choose not to.
people who think others are overreacting aren’t going to care without proof.
These people will never be satisfied, regardless of however, much proof and evidence you provide. It’s a trolling tactic known as Sealioning. Endless demands for proof while acknowledging none of them, regardless of how undeniable. It’s a delayed tactic to avoid ever having to admit that they were wrong or at fault, betting that you will eventually give up first.
This is like a factory farm where all the animals are kept in horrible conditions. You cannot make a vegan out of “they are treated bad” but you can if you show them.
You’re not gonna convince anyone with bad faith arguments based on niche morality. If you’re gonna cite the problem being that the farm is a “factory farm”, then the alternative is to, obviously, make it a humane farm. But, as a vegan, your agenda is too clearly shame people for eating meat altogether. That makes your criticism a factory farming, disingenuous, since the obvious alternative, human farming, isn’t didn’t even an option for you. Your problem isn’t with factory farming, your problem is with the fact that people eat meat in the first place. And you’re never gonna win an ideological war with an extremely dubious moral argument.
I feel you are just making excuses for weak people who can do something but choose not to.
And I think you’re being hypocritical of others, considering the context of your judgments when measured against your own actions, attempting to make/enact social change because you realize the hypocrisy and nonsensical position of your own argument.
That’s my point though. They aren’t doing a modest change when presented with information regarding factory farms. Because that modest change would come at an increased (financial) cost.
No, your point is that you’re mad that the entire world hasn’t gone vegan, and you’re venting your frustration here. Problem with that is, that isn’t gonna get anyone to change their habits either. It’s just going to cement the stereotype of the whiny, bitchy, pretentious, condescending vegan that has been so well earned by every vegan on this planet.
If everybody hates what you are, nobody’s going to become what you are. Be the change you want to see in the world. Stop being such a whiny, bitchy, condescending, pretentious jerk about telling everyone what they should be doing with their lives. You have no right to do that, and more people than not will do the exact opposite just to show you up.
People hate to be lectured. And that’s all that vegans know how to do.
Huh, I think you’re responding to the wrong person here. This comment clearly seems intended for @womjunru@lemmy.cafe , with whom you’ve been in a spirited debate with.
I’m not getting combative or lecturing anyone here.
I’ve explained pretty clearly why what you think does not reflect reality. Including your inability to even conceive that criticism may be pointed towards you.
That is, yet, another problem with your position. You believe it to be infallible. Clearly, you are wrong.
From a political standpoint, it comes down to weighing the political cost of sneaking in a camera and possibly being arrested for trying to sneak photos out, and between the knowledge that anyone who’s listening damn well knows how fucking bad it is there already without having to see pictures. And the political value of acting like victims of fascism (which they unquestionably are) might be more valuable than showing pictures and video of horrors that Americans are already numb to.
In short, there is more value in being denied the ability to take photo and video then there is an actually showing the photos and video. That way, people will assume the worst as their imaginations will allow rather than showing yet another video of people in horrific conditions. If that sort of imagery could motivate Americans to act, it would have already. The imminent threat to free speech is far more concerning to the people of this country as a whole.
Undercover law…people have buttons for cameras. Democrats can sort this…if they wanted to do it.
I’m sure they want to, but they don’t want to risk a hair on their head. They aren’t qualified to be in their jobs.
There are dozens of ways we could get footage, from drones to undercover workers, etc. No one is gonna do it.
I understand the sentiment but it can be difficult to legislate when youre detained or rotting in a swamp
That footage will come out. Then people will protest. And nothing will change.
Probably right.
As an aside, you seem to have really struck a nerve with OP. They are even attacking me now, lol.
I’ve already had to report them for becoming abusive.
Oh the controlled opposition jig is still very much fooling the majority of constituents.
🤷♂️ no one is gonna do anything. We can point fingers all we want but even the people who truly are not okay with this will still do nothing. You, me, etc.
Those cameras that cops wear? They have buttons, too.
Cameras that are disguised as buttons. They even have tiny cameras that can be tucked in a bra that can see through clothing. Undercover cops use these types of devices for evidence during a drug buy or prostitution sting.
Those cameras that cops wear? They have buttons, too.
I disagree completely with you. People who know it’s bad aren’t going to do anything, and people who think others are overreacting aren’t going to care without proof.
This is like a factory farm where all the animals are kept in horrible conditions. You cannot make a vegan out of “they are treated bad” but you can if you show them.
I feel you are just making excuses for weak people who can do something but choose not to.
These people will never be satisfied, regardless of however, much proof and evidence you provide. It’s a trolling tactic known as Sealioning. Endless demands for proof while acknowledging none of them, regardless of how undeniable. It’s a delayed tactic to avoid ever having to admit that they were wrong or at fault, betting that you will eventually give up first.
You’re not gonna convince anyone with bad faith arguments based on niche morality. If you’re gonna cite the problem being that the farm is a “factory farm”, then the alternative is to, obviously, make it a humane farm. But, as a vegan, your agenda is too clearly shame people for eating meat altogether. That makes your criticism a factory farming, disingenuous, since the obvious alternative, human farming, isn’t didn’t even an option for you. Your problem isn’t with factory farming, your problem is with the fact that people eat meat in the first place. And you’re never gonna win an ideological war with an extremely dubious moral argument.
And I think you’re being hypocritical of others, considering the context of your judgments when measured against your own actions, attempting to make/enact social change because you realize the hypocrisy and nonsensical position of your own argument.
Even with knowledge of factory farms, the general public (non-vegan) don’t seriously seem to be pushing back and pushing for a change in farming.
Regardless of what vegans’ end goal is, spreading awareness doesn’t seem to be getting people to go for more modest changes either.
Perhaps, but you’re much more likely to get people to undertake modest to change than radical change.
That’s my point though. They aren’t doing a modest change when presented with information regarding factory farms. Because that modest change would come at an increased (financial) cost.
No, your point is that you’re mad that the entire world hasn’t gone vegan, and you’re venting your frustration here. Problem with that is, that isn’t gonna get anyone to change their habits either. It’s just going to cement the stereotype of the whiny, bitchy, pretentious, condescending vegan that has been so well earned by every vegan on this planet.
If everybody hates what you are, nobody’s going to become what you are. Be the change you want to see in the world. Stop being such a whiny, bitchy, condescending, pretentious jerk about telling everyone what they should be doing with their lives. You have no right to do that, and more people than not will do the exact opposite just to show you up.
People hate to be lectured. And that’s all that vegans know how to do.
Huh, I think you’re responding to the wrong person here. This comment clearly seems intended for @womjunru@lemmy.cafe , with whom you’ve been in a spirited debate with.
I’m not getting combative or lecturing anyone here.
I’ve explained pretty clearly why what you think does not reflect reality. Including your inability to even conceive that criticism may be pointed towards you.
That is, yet, another problem with your position. You believe it to be infallible. Clearly, you are wrong.
Removed by mod
Aw… Little baby found an opinion on the Internet he didn’t like, and all he can do is hurl childish insults.
You’re not gonna convince anyone of anything when all you can do is throw a tantrum when you hear something you don’t like.