The Democrats know perfectly well what they would have to do to defeat Trump. It’s blindingly obvious, after all.
Is it? From a party whose voters want to go rightwards, now, wherein independents are already more right-leaning than that, and the only other major political coalition being even further right than that?
“Just go left, we’ll totally win 😊” is the same line that got people fired up for Corbyn, who proceeded to make no headway in a country already much less right-wing than the US.
Going left being better for the country does not equate to it being the path to electoral victory.
Yeah you can say that to suit your narrative, but it’s complete BS. In fact Corbyn had significantly more votes in 2017 and 2019 than Starmer in 2024.
Which governments did Labour form at the time, again?
The left has to convince voters, not follow them, wtf
Electoral success and convincing people are not mutually exclusive options; the former is an immensely powerful tool for the latter. Unless your plan is “Hand the gun over to the fascists, put it to your head, and hope that when they pull the trigger it will inspire the masses to spontaneously learn the words to the Internationale in their hearts and rise up against fascism”, it involves some amount of concessions to the majority of voters.
But sure, run on gay marriage in 1940 until you win, I’m sure the Black folk who are being lynched won’t mind waiting another few decades, nor will the unions seeking better conditions, nor the folks trying to stop social security from being repealed etc etc etc etc.
Yeah, but first you were talking about how the general populace was going right. Corbyn clearly disproves that. This idea that success (which maybe doesn’t require to form the next government) translates to a higher share in votes might be a statistical thing, but it’s not constructive, it just leads to opportunism.
Since the majority of voters are workers it shouldn’t be that hard for the left to offer them something, right?
I don’t think your last paragraph makes much sense.
Yeah, but first you were talking about how the general populace was going right
They subsequently elected Starmer, of all people, didn’t they?
This idea that success (which maybe doesn’t require to form the next government) translates to a higher share in votes might be a statistical thing, but it’s not constructive, it just leads to opportunism.
I’m sorry, if Corbyn didn’t form a government, as majority or coalition partner, didn’t move politics in the UK left, nor politics in his own party left, nor moved demographics in the UK left… what kind of success are we looking at, here?
For the record, I’m not blaming Corbyn for this loss. Far from it. I’m only saying that going left is not enough
People want common sense approaches to social problems. The party stabbed Bernie Sanders twice in a row after shitting themselves because he was going to win the Democratic primary.
More people I know who voted for Trump like and respect Sanders more than any other Dem candidate in the last decade because he’s authentic and true to himself and his beliefs. They don’t think his proposed solutions are going to work, but they’re willing to have a conversation and meet in the middle. The all or nothing ideologues running the Dems right now have no fucking idea what they’re doing, they’re trashing the joint - whether by malice or idiocy is moot at this point. Get these people OUT
No, I just have the misfortune of preferring unpleasant data over feel-good circlejerks about how we’re TOTALLY the silent majority, despite all evidence to the contrary.
People want common sense approaches to social problems.
You do realize this is the exact line that right-wingers say amongst themselves about why people REALLY want a far-right corporatocrat theocracy, right?
More people I know who voted for Trump like and respect Sanders more than any other Dem candidate in the last decade because he’s authentic and true to himself and his beliefs.
Unfortunately, that transfers approximately not-at-fucking-all to electoral success in swaying them to vote for anyone but the fascist ghouls, in the same way that Nazi voters always knew one “good Jew” or modern American right-wing voters always know one person who “deserves” public services or is a “good” member of the LGBT community who deserves their identity.
They’ll vote for the Holocaust all the same, but at least you’ll get an asspat out of it, right?
They don’t think his proposed solutions are going to work, but they’re willing to have a conversation and meet in the middle. The all or nothing ideologues running the Dem right now have no fucking idea what they’re doing, they’re trashing the joint - whether by malice or idiocy is moot at this point. Get these people OUT
“The REAL problem is that the current Dems aren’t willing to compromise and meet in the middle with the fascists!”
Well ACKSHULLY wanting common sense solutions is right wing coded!
Another 10 years of losses for you friend, gl. The vibe has been altered, these dipshit takes are going to deliver conservative rule for the next generation.
Well ACKSHULLY wanting common sense solutions is right wing coded!
Have you ever had a discussion with conservatives about what they think is ‘common sense’?
Have you ever paid attention to how often conservatives discuss ‘common sense’ solutions that appeal to people who want to think that their deeply politicized views aren’t political at all?
Do you know what ‘common sense’ is to fucking begin with?
Fuck’s sake. It’s like talking to someone who’s voted GOP for the past 50 years of their fucking life but insists that they’re a ‘moderate’.
Suppose you’re not going to answer about how Dems being ‘ideologues’ right now who won’t compromise, and how ‘meeting in the middle’ with fascist voters will totally be a less right-wing solution.
Or about the data explicitly proving you wrong. But I guess I must be high.
Is it? From a party whose voters want to go rightwards, now, wherein independents are already more right-leaning than that, and the only other major political coalition being even further right than that?
“Just go left, we’ll totally win 😊” is the same line that got people fired up for Corbyn, who proceeded to make no headway in a country already much less right-wing than the US.
Going left being better for the country does not equate to it being the path to electoral victory.
-Put conditions on any aid going to Israel.
-Arrest trump and his sycophants in Congress for their litany of heinous crimes against the American people.
-Force Biden not to run in 2024, have an actual primary and don’t put their thumb on the scale to nominate a corporate-owned bipartisan centrist.
I’m pretty pro-democrat, but they could have done all that shit in a day and locked in the next 8 years of federal elections.
Corbyn made no headway?
Yeah you can say that to suit your narrative, but it’s complete BS. In fact Corbyn had significantly more votes in 2017 and 2019 than Starmer in 2024.
The left has to convince voters, not follow them, wtf
Which governments did Labour form at the time, again?
Electoral success and convincing people are not mutually exclusive options; the former is an immensely powerful tool for the latter. Unless your plan is “Hand the gun over to the fascists, put it to your head, and hope that when they pull the trigger it will inspire the masses to spontaneously learn the words to the Internationale in their hearts and rise up against fascism”, it involves some amount of concessions to the majority of voters.
But sure, run on gay marriage in 1940 until you win, I’m sure the Black folk who are being lynched won’t mind waiting another few decades, nor will the unions seeking better conditions, nor the folks trying to stop social security from being repealed etc etc etc etc.
Yeah, but first you were talking about how the general populace was going right. Corbyn clearly disproves that. This idea that success (which maybe doesn’t require to form the next government) translates to a higher share in votes might be a statistical thing, but it’s not constructive, it just leads to opportunism.
Since the majority of voters are workers it shouldn’t be that hard for the left to offer them something, right?
I don’t think your last paragraph makes much sense.
They subsequently elected Starmer, of all people, didn’t they?
I’m sorry, if Corbyn didn’t form a government, as majority or coalition partner, didn’t move politics in the UK left, nor politics in his own party left, nor moved demographics in the UK left… what kind of success are we looking at, here?
For the record, I’m not blaming Corbyn for this loss. Far from it. I’m only saying that going left is not enough
“Want to go rightwards” - are you fucking high?
People want common sense approaches to social problems. The party stabbed Bernie Sanders twice in a row after shitting themselves because he was going to win the Democratic primary.
More people I know who voted for Trump like and respect Sanders more than any other Dem candidate in the last decade because he’s authentic and true to himself and his beliefs. They don’t think his proposed solutions are going to work, but they’re willing to have a conversation and meet in the middle. The all or nothing ideologues running the Dems right now have no fucking idea what they’re doing, they’re trashing the joint - whether by malice or idiocy is moot at this point. Get these people OUT
No, I just have the misfortune of preferring unpleasant data over feel-good circlejerks about how we’re TOTALLY the silent majority, despite all evidence to the contrary.
You do realize this is the exact line that right-wingers say amongst themselves about why people REALLY want a far-right corporatocrat theocracy, right?
Unfortunately, that transfers approximately not-at-fucking-all to electoral success in swaying them to vote for anyone but the fascist ghouls, in the same way that Nazi voters always knew one “good Jew” or modern American right-wing voters always know one person who “deserves” public services or is a “good” member of the LGBT community who deserves their identity.
They’ll vote for the Holocaust all the same, but at least you’ll get an asspat out of it, right?
“The REAL problem is that the current Dems aren’t willing to compromise and meet in the middle with the fascists!”
Lord.
And you say this is a LESS far-right solution?
Jesus Christ.
I mean, here’s a poll published 2 months later stating that Democrats want the party to be more progressive. Couple that with the fact that the 62% of Democrats want to throw the centrist leadership out on its ass and I’m not sure, “people want moderates, actually,” is a reasonable conclusion anymore.
Well ACKSHULLY wanting common sense solutions is right wing coded!
Another 10 years of losses for you friend, gl. The vibe has been altered, these dipshit takes are going to deliver conservative rule for the next generation.
Have you ever had a discussion with conservatives about what they think is ‘common sense’?
Have you ever paid attention to how often conservatives discuss ‘common sense’ solutions that appeal to people who want to think that their deeply politicized views aren’t political at all?
Do you know what ‘common sense’ is to fucking begin with?
Fuck’s sake. It’s like talking to someone who’s voted GOP for the past 50 years of their fucking life but insists that they’re a ‘moderate’.
Suppose you’re not going to answer about how Dems being ‘ideologues’ right now who won’t compromise, and how ‘meeting in the middle’ with fascist voters will totally be a less right-wing solution.
Or about the data explicitly proving you wrong. But I guess I must be high.
ChatGPT ass reply bro touch grass
Lord.